Google Maps Crash Course

Are You Missing Out On Local Business?

Whether you help people remotely, nationally or locally this is a bit of a quick win. There’s no need to be super techy, waste loads of time or get overwhelmed with this tactic.

It’s pretty simple there’s a free app called “Google My Business”.

You’re probably already registered but if you’re not featured in the “Map Pack” (The three local business featured on the Google search results) here’s what you can do about it.

Transcription

Alex Curtis:
Good afternoon. Thanks for joining, thanks for watching, if you are for this little Google Maps crash course. You may or may not have been on the PRIMIS webinars last week, where I did a 10-minute crash course on Google Maps. And I thought it’d be good to share with you guys.

Alex Curtis:
I know there was a lot of non-PRIMIS people on there, and I know a lot of you may want a bit of a refresh, because it was 10 minutes, in your face, real quick. So it’d be good to have a refresher and then you can watch it back anytime in here as well.

Alex Curtis:
Give me a shout in the comments if you’re watching live. I think there’s a few of you guys doing so. It’d be good to see who is here. Hopefully, I can see that on the screen. And then hopefully, we will get started in a second. And then if you’ve got any questions about Google Maps, I know…

Alex Curtis:
Hi Aman, how are you doing? Been regular on our virtual coffees, be good to get an update on you, mate, on where you are on the old network side of things.

Alex Curtis:
Stefan Cork, hello. How are you doing?

Alex Curtis:
Nizam, how’s it going?

Alex Curtis:
Jamie Thompson’s here. Imram’s here. Jim Smith is here. Simhul’s here. Wow. We’ve got the whole gang. I’m going to wave at you all. There you go.

Alex Curtis:
Well, I’m going to dive straight in because it is only a quick one. I’ll give it maybe two seconds. Has anyone… Smile? I am smiling. I’m sorry, AJ, I’m not a professionally trained actor like yourself, but I will smile. I’m very happy today. I’m just waving back.

Alex Curtis:
Steven Dickinson’s here. Anne Robertson’s here. Who else have we got? We’ve got loads of you guys here. Awesome. And I’ve got a heart as well.

Alex Curtis:
So I’m going to share my screen and I’m going to dive straight in. So it’s only a 10 minute bit of training. Let’s dive straight in. So it’s Google Maps. It is three tips, which I think I’m going to go through in a sec. But what I wanted to say is that obviously a referral is the best kind of lead you can ever get because the trust has already been built. And I think that’s why they’re much, much easier than your normal web leads. But I want to talk about generating a warm lead, the next best thing, so that we get those kinds of inquiries. Someone said here, “Can you call me so I can explain to you in more depth?”

Alex Curtis:
And these ones where people are giving figures and things like that. We find normally, the more they put in the message part, the more bought in they are. So stuff when they are properly unpacking their situation, because they already know that you can help them. So these are the sorts of leads you want to get.

Alex Curtis:
Hi, Aqeel. Hi Andrew Charles. Hi Steven Dickinson.

Alex Curtis:
Okay. So three tips. So we want to get more traffic from Google Maps, we want to convert more of that traffic into an inquiry, and we want to increase the contact rate. I’m going to give you a tip for each one of those.

Alex Curtis:
So guys, if you were to Google mortgage advice, mortgage advisor, mortgage broker, we’ll all get different results on the Google results page. So there’s no one top of Google. Google sees this as like a local search. It will give local results. So often the ads at the top will be different, the maps will be different, and then the listings underneath will be different as well. But I’m going to be talking about the map section mainly here.

Alex Curtis:
But across the UK each month, there are 60,000 searches for just mortgage advice and all the related terms, so where can I get mortgage advice? Who gives the best mortgage advice? 60,000 across the whole UK. Almost everyone that searches that sees a different result based on where they sat in the country.

Alex Curtis:
People spell it as mortgage advisor, not mortgage adviser, so 90,000 people search for a mortgage advisor, another 3000 each month for a mortgage adviser. Obviously, the same thing. So, what? 93,000. So it’s like, where can I find a mortgage advisor? Blah, blah, blah.

Alex Curtis:
Mortgage broker. So over 100,000 searches every month, someone that’s already decided they want mortgage broker or asking maybe a question about a mortgage broker. All of these searches are going to provide a different result. So you can get a slice of all of this in your local area.

Alex Curtis:
Hi Daniel Wenham. Hi Graham Wilson. Hi Lewis Shaw. Hi Nesh. How you doing? I haven’t spoken to you for a while. Nesh came to our first ever event. And I haven’t spoken to you for ages, mate. I hope you’re doing well.

Alex Curtis:
Okay. So if I were to Google mortgage advice, the ads will obviously be there. You could choose to advertise locally if you want. You can choose to advertise nationally. So you may get different results in there. But I want to talk about these three spots on Google Maps. So if you were to try that after this call or even now, if you’ve got a spare screen, search for mortgage advice, mortgage broker, you’ll see the Google Maps come up with different results, obviously.

Alex Curtis:
So that’s what happens for me in Peterborough. It’s all managed in the Google My Business app. So if you get the app on your phone, it’s really easy to manage and completely free as well. So we’re not paying for any of this traffic.

Alex Curtis:
Okay. So I searched for a mortgage broker in Cambridge. I’ve got Turney & Associates, Mortgage Solutions Centre, Fitch & Fitch, and you’ll notice that they’re not in order of who has got the most reviews.

Alex Curtis:
Sorry, I’ve just lost my feed on my phone. Just give me two seconds, or we’re going to have to go without it. But I think people are saying stuff and I can’t see. Apologies. I’ll come back to the comments in a minute.

Alex Curtis:
So what I wanted to say is it’s not just about getting reviews. There are a little more things you can do.

Alex Curtis:
I’m back, so hopefully people can say hi again.

Alex Curtis:
Also Norwich, another example. Look, it’s not ordered in reviews. In fact, Balanced Financial Services have the least amount of reviews. They’re in third place. Vincent, Mortgage Advice Bureau. And you notice Balanced is on the outskirts of town, and you can notice as well, in Lincoln, that Mortgages in Lincoln are not actually in Lincoln.

Alex Curtis:
Sorry, my computer’s going crazy. Okay. Again, not ordered by reviews. There’s more going on here. So I’m going to talk through how we can get featured. And I’m really sorry that my screen is going crazy.

Alex Curtis:
Okay. So the Google My Business tools that you can use on the app, I’m just going to go through three of them that are going to help. There is more to it. We did a podcast episode last week on it, so check that out. But posting, getting more reviews, enable messaging.

Alex Curtis:
So the post. If you go in the app and you log into the app on the bottom right-hand corner, you can create a post. And you tap on that and it’ll give you different options of different types of posts that you can do. And you’ll notice there that there is a COVID-19 update. That’s probably the one thing that I would do today, if you haven’t done already is let Google know that you’re open for business and you’re working during this time. It’s obviously a signal that they’ve set up that they want you to use.

Alex Curtis:
Now, the posts, I would do them once a week, and I’ll show you that on the next screen. But you’ll see on the right-hand side here, if I searched for The Lead Engine, the posts actually come up right at the bottom. So you don’t often see them. So don’t really put as much thought as you do into your social media to try and get attention or whatever. Think of it as every time I’m doing a post, I’m saying to Google, “I’m here. I’m in this location. I’m doing business. This is me doing work.” So make it part of your process every Monday morning to put a post out, it takes two seconds. As you can see, tap, tap, boom. I should copyright that. Tap, tap, boom.

Alex Curtis:
Yeah. Do your COVID-19 update now, do FAQ’s once a week because from the Google search results, so if someone were to Google your name, they can ask you a question from the search results. It’s not working at the minute because Google have put a few restrictions on the app. But when we come out of lockdown, people will be able to ask a question about you on the Google search results page. And if you were to have already created the answer, when they ask that question, it can autopopulate using posts and reviews where you’ve already answered it. So do FAQ’s.

Alex Curtis:
And it doesn’t really matter. So the last thing that you could post about is literally anything, because again, it’s just saying, “Hi, Google. I’m here. I’m still trading.”

Alex Curtis:
Okay. So getting more reviews. I know a lot of people say, “How you do it.” It’s mega easy from the app. So go in, tap Customers at the bottom, Reviews at the top, Get Reviews, that gives you a URL to copy. So you can just tap Copy and then you can send it in a text, send it in a WhatsApp group, send it into a WhatsApp chat, on Facebook chat, email. If you scroll down, all your apps are there. So however you’re talking to your client, you’ve just submitted an offer or you’ve just completed their protection or whatever it is that you do, you can then say, “Look, do you mind just dropping me a cheeky little review on Google? Because that really helps me.”

Alex Curtis:
And then you can enable messaging as well. So this Request a Quote button on your listing, when someone such as your name. Unfortunately, we can’t edit the name Request a Quote, so it’s not ideal, but again, we want to use Google’s tools more so than the other competitors in our area to get featured.

Alex Curtis:
So if you log into the app, go to Customers at the bottom, Messages at the top, Turn on Messaging, and that Request a Quote button will be there and then they can contact you. Make sure you do contact them back really quickly, otherwise Google will take that from you. But again, it is you using one of the tools that Google provides. If you do, that could be the difference between you and the other people being featured.

Alex Curtis:
So that could take anything up to six weeks if you’re doing that, posting regularly. It depends on what everyone else is doing in your area. Some people have jumped on straight away. It just depends. I think there’s a bit of a link to how good your website is as well. You do need a website as well. There’s lots of little signals, but check that podcast episode we did with more detail.

Alex Curtis:
So we’ve got more traffic hopefully, more local people, and they have got specific problems and we want to give them as many specific solutions as possible. So this is a bit of a broad tip that I would use all the time for anything, not just for your website, for social media. I think sometimes we talk about everything we do rather than specific problems. It really helped me actually, writing in my book, when I thought one person, one problem, one solution. So if you think about the pages on your website, your blog posts, your social media posts, if you follow that pattern, that is going to help you convert more of that traffic into an inquiry if you have that content on your website.

Alex Curtis:
Your name and your face are the important thing. I’m going to be sharing some data. I’ve been doing some video surveys with random people of the public, friends, family, people that I don’t know. I’ve been sending them one link to one website, a link to another. And I’ve been asking them what they like or who they would be most likely to speak to. Pretty much everyone has said, “I liked the person that they’re showing, I know who they are. I know what their name and their face is.” I’ll share that data with you when I’ve collected it all.

Alex Curtis:
And the other thing we’re finding working really well is a simple form over something like a chat bot. We’ve found that the chat bots are really better at collecting data, but giving the message box is making it easier. So I’m just going to dive through.

Alex Curtis:
So as you probably know, I recently launched the Equity Release Podcast, and what we’re finding is when we do episodes on specific problems… So this one is talking about an interest only mortgage expiring, so someone over 55, they’ve just had a letter from the bank saying, “Your interest only mortgage has expired. You own 80 grand. You need to pay that back. We can’t offer you a traditional mortgage.” So this is where equity release might be quite helpful.

Alex Curtis:
So if I put my shoes in the person of, I’m that person that has had that letter, and I see a potential solution, yes, there may be a smaller amount of people, but I think you’ll find higher engagement and you can get them through onto your side. So again, if I’ve come through, I’m looking for mortgage advice or financial advice or equity release advice, and I’ve found your website on Google Maps and I’ve gone through, and I see an article or a post or a podcast episode, or a video about this specific problem, which I have, I’m more likely to engage and inquire with you.

Alex Curtis:
Showing your name and your face. So this is one of the links that I’ve been sending out, asking people to compare. It’s using the old website, so it’s not the most jazziest designed website. But they really, really loved that they could hear from James and that they saw his name and his face, and an invitation to call was huge. So don’t hide behind your logo. No one cares what your mortgage brokerage is called, they care who you are.

Alex Curtis:
And then this simple form on the right hand side of every page, we’re finding working really well at the moment. That message box gives people an opportunity to unpack their problem. And you’ll notice, we haven’t even titled the form. By actually putting a title on there, like Arrange a Callback, some people don’t want a callback, they just want to unpack their problem, and they’ll ask for a phone call if they want it. So it leaves it open. We’re finding more inquiries, but those meatier ones, like the examples that I showed you at the beginning, where people want your help and they’ve already decided that they want your help.

Alex Curtis:
And then increasing your contact rate, your thank you page. So I’m guilty of not doing this for our website. It’s like the cobbler’s kids shoes, I never get to spend time sorting my own website out. But what I should do is something like this, saying, “Hey, thank you for your inquiry. My name’s Alex. I’ll call you back. This is my number. Save it to your phone so you know it’s me.”

Alex Curtis:
If you do all those things, I believe you’ll get more traffic from Google Maps. If you post regularly in the Google My Business app, if you use that basic form on the hero section, like I showed you and let them know who’s calling, I think if you do those three things, you will get more inquiries.

Alex Curtis:
So that is it. That was my 10 minutes. How long did that take? What are we up to? We’re on 15 minutes, but I did natter at the beginning. Does anyone have any questions for me in the comments? Otherwise, I will dive out. Let’s just have a look.

Alex Curtis:
“Has anyone else’s screen gone blurry?”

Alex Curtis:
Oh no.

Alex Curtis:
“This is pure gold,” from David.

Alex Curtis:
Hi, Jeff. “Hopefully this will be available to catch up.” He’s got to shoot. Lewis, mate. He’s back in the game.

Alex Curtis:
AJ, sorry. I don’t know if my screen has gone blurry. I will record it again if I need to. Apologies. Do we have any other questions? Otherwise, I’m going to shoot. Let me know. We’ve gone quiet, so I’m guessing… Is anyone still there? I hope so.

Alex Curtis:
I’m going to go then, because no one has asked me anything. If you want to know anything, ask me the comments. If it’s after we’ve gone live. Thanks very much for watching. We’ve had a podcast episode go live today on being smart with PPC where Tom and I pretty much talk around circles.

Alex Curtis:
“It might just be AJ’s useless wifi.” Potentially. But I’m going to do another one of these crash courses, I think, because I like smashing it in 10 minutes. Some little things.

Alex Curtis:
“Good stuff,” from Jeff.

Alex Curtis:
Rajesh just saying, “Yes.” I’m not sure what that yes is for.

Alex Curtis:
Right, okay. Nesh, “Can you tell me how bad my Lincoln Estate Planning Solutions Ltd. Google page is.”

Alex Curtis:
Nesh, So that is you? We have been chatting, but via the Lincoln Estate Planning Solutions. Can I tell you how bad it is? Do you want everyone else to know?

Alex Curtis:
Nizam, “Good help, good info.”

Alex Curtis:
No worries, my man.

Alex Curtis:
What is it? Lincoln Estate Planning Solutions. How bad it is. I don’t think it’s a case of being bad, it’s just a case of it doesn’t come up in Google, so let me show everyone. Sorry to call you out, Nesh, on this, man. So I’ve Googled your name and it’s not come up even with the Ltd. So it should come up in the right hand side. So it may be that you’ve not registered it. If you work from home and you don’t have an office, you can use a virtual office. I’ve seen people use that before. Check with your network. Someone asked about network.

Alex Curtis:
“Yes. Why not? It will get better.”

Alex Curtis:
I don’t know. Nesh, have you verified it? Did you get the postcard from Google, and did you have to verify it with a code? And then it might just be…

Alex Curtis:
“Just launched the Google.”

Alex Curtis:
You’ve only just launched it, so that could be it. It’s not always immediate.

Alex Curtis:
“Can you have a quick gander at mine too? Mortgage Advice Bureau, Thame.”

Alex Curtis:
All right. So this is Mortgage Advice Bureau Thame. Let’s have a look. It would help if I could spell. Yes. So we’ve got 47 Google reviews.

Alex Curtis:
“Got lost at the hero bit.”

Alex Curtis:
Well, Stefan, I think we’re talking about your website, aren’t we? At some point. So yeah, yours is here. 47 reviews. You’ve got no posts that you’ve done recently.

Alex Curtis:
So just going back to Nesh, it might be a bit early, mate. Possibly. Especially with all the issues going on at the minute. And then if we go to…

Alex Curtis:
You’re featured already, but you are third. You are third in that. So maybe, you might be able to bump yourself up Stefan, with doing posting once a week. Just make it so there are some other things.

Alex Curtis:
So I’ve got a few questions. I’ll deal with them one at a time. So if you hang on. Just back to Stefan, I reckon if you were to do your posts once a week and then just making sure… Because what you’ve got here on your address, Stefan, if you’re still watching, 1 Croft Cl, Thame. And then, let’s just make sure that matches exactly with what you’ve got on your…

Alex Curtis:
And this is great, I’ve got a few questions. I’ll deal with them in a minute. So I’m just going to load up Stefan’s website, which is a bit slow at the moment.

Alex Curtis:
Right. So, this may seem really pernickety, but this is what Google is looking for. So Stefan, you’ve got 1 Croft Close, Thame, there on your website as your address. Now, not to get too geeky, but there is some code on your website that you can tell Google that this is my address format, which I don’t think you’ve got on there.

Alex Curtis:
I’ll do another tutorial on this. But you see how your address is different on here to your website. So update your Google My Business to make that match exactly the same. It is something they’re looking for, the exact same format of your address. And then do some posting, Stefan, I think you’ll push up to position one.

Alex Curtis:
Okay. So I have a question from Nizam. How much impact do Google reviews have on pushing you up the list? We direct our clients to Trustpilot, but would we be better off using Google reviews instead?

Alex Curtis:
So I think Trustpilot is great. So let’s go through that because Trustpilot is really good. I wasn’t sharing my screen when I was just talking there for a second, was I Let me just go back through and just… Or am I? I can’t remember. I think I am now.

Alex Curtis:
So Stefan, give me a shout in the comments if you understood the whole address format thing.

Alex Curtis:
Nizam, yes, Google reviews do count. So I know obviously, you’re in Peterborough as well, and you guys didn’t come up. So the reviews do have an impact on which one is featured, but what I would say is don’t get all your clients to review you at once. One of the things they’re looking for is regular reviews. So 100 five star reviews in one go is probably not as good as a four stars once a week for 100 weeks, if that makes sense. So get them regularly as possible.

Alex Curtis:
Would I recommend it over Trustpilot? If you’re using the paid Trustpilot version, you can start getting the stars in your Google results page. Especially if you’re running ads, you can have to stars from Trustpilot on the paid version. And that does really help with click through rate and building authority as well. So, really good question. I’m going to do some video articles specifically on that. That was a really good question that we had from someone else as well. They were using Facebook.

Alex Curtis:
Ideally, can you do both? Depends how good you are with clients. AJ, “Does it matter if we use Google Business app on phone or desktop?”

Alex Curtis:
Not really. I find the app really easy. I don’t know if you can turn on messaging without the app. That’s the only thing, AJ. But you can use your desktop. That’s fine for doing your posting. Posting on desktop is really easy. I just find it really easy to manage, send reviews and everything on the app.

Alex Curtis:
Cool. If we’ve not got any more questions… Or maybe we have. Do we? Stefan, you’re good. Nizam, good, good, good. Cool. Right guys, that was awesome. I’ll do these more often. So thanks very much. I will speak to you soon. Have a good Monday and stay safe everybody. And I will see you very soon. Bye-bye.

085 – Data Capture Options On Your Website – Forms, Chatbots, TypeForms, Full Applications

085 - Data Capture Options On Your Website - Forms, Chatbots, TypeForms, Full Applications
085 - Data Capture Options On Your Website - Forms, Chatbots, TypeForms, Full Applications

Transcription

Alex Curtis:
Welcome back to the Advisers Assemble podcast, formerly known as Lead Generation Financial Services. I’m with Mr. Maplethorpe. Tom, how’s it going?

Tom Maplethorpe:
Afternoon, mate. Yeah, not bad, not bad. How are you?

Alex Curtis:
Good. I’m all right. Haven’t put you off-guard, getting the name wrong or anything you sort of still in the zone?

Tom Maplethorpe:
No, I’m still getting my stride. Yeah, don’t worry about that. Seamless.

Alex Curtis:
Yeah, no, definitely. Definitely, as per usual. We want to talk about data capture on websites. What are the options, what we’ve learned and found and know about sort of capturing data in different ways. I think for me is, with a lot of these podcast things, there’s not a straight answer, because if you take one example where someone is… They’ve got a website, they’ve got a specialism, let’s say it’s Japanese knotweed mortgages, because it’s my favorite niche. They have got videos talking about what all the different lenders will treat it. What you got to do, blah, blah, blah. Almost give you all the information you need to go and do it yourself, building trust and rapport, et cetera. And they do it in a non salesy way.

Alex Curtis:
Then I don’t think it matters as much how that person asks for the inquiry than someone that is a whole of market, hides behind stock and a logo, doesn’t put the names of their advisors on or anything. There’s a big difference between the other one, whereas you’d probably have to do more sort of tweaks and look out how people interact and worry a bit more about the customer journey on the latter. Would you agree with that?

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah, definitely. I think you’re right. The specialism thing, that counts for a lot. That sort of takes out… Well, when you just we’re talking about like the data capturing a lot of it comes down to like psychology and we call it CRO or Conversion Rate Optimization.

Tom Maplethorpe:
But when you think about your specialist in something, that overrides an awful lot of that psychology, if you know what I mean in terms of, because he was [inaudible 00:01:58] from a branding point of view in the mind of the user that you are the Japanese knotweed mortgage expert, why wouldn’t they get in touch with you?

Tom Maplethorpe:
But then, if you’re a bit more, you cover a lot more bases, then you do need to think of maybe a little bit more carefully about how you do or get the kind of data capture that you’re sort of looking for. And a lot of it comes down to, well, generally that we found is to just make it as easy as possible for people to get in touch.

Alex Curtis:
Absolutely. And I think it’s no, it’s kind of easy to see what we suggest because on our new website builder, all the templates, all, bar one, actually just, but we’ve only put that in there just because of a different option rather than a recommendation, but the three main templates and pretty much the three that people are using, the form is on the top right-hand side, underneath the menu in, we call it like that hero space on every single page.

Alex Curtis:
And we don’t put a title at the top. We don’t say, “Call. Arrange of callback,” or anything. It’s that’s kind of left open and we ask for name, email, phone number, message, submit. And we kind of leave it at that. I guess, that’s what we recommend if we don’t know the backstory of your specialism or whatever. We found that to be quite a good one. People sort of unpack their problem in that sort of message box, don’t they?

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah. We’ve tried so much stuff with it. I know we’ll, I’m sure we’re going to talk about landbots in a bit, but or chatbots in a bit. But yeah, we’ve done multi-stage forms, some of the capture details that go along, some that don’t because this will be the theory that in terms of okay, if you capture more of the information, is it a better quality lead that comes through? But then, chances are, you might not get as many through because there’s more steps to follow, but then where are they going to be a good lead, anyway, if they’re not really that…? There’s so many kinds of permutations [crosstalk 00:03:34].

Alex Curtis:
Yeah, because they could be desperate. Like you could be the last, how you’re my last hope, so I’ll fill in whatever you want. But it’s a rubbish lead because I’ve been declined by every single other broker, every single lender.

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah. On the other side of it, as well. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It’s kind of, we find it just generally works and then it just go back to like we said it. It did just become a bit of a numbers game. The longer that your, say your form, for example, it is, the less likely, the less number of people will fill it out. And then, if you’re not getting loads of traffic to your website, you can’t really afford to have a low conversion rate. If you’re getting loads of traffic, then you can still say, “Oh, okay, well I can afford to have a more complex form to get better quality leads, even if it converts or one or 2% less because I’m not doing as much like work on the other side. And once the lead drops in.

Tom Maplethorpe:
But if you’re not getting much traffic, it’s almost 1% or 2% conversion rate of a 100% isn’t sort of amazing, depending on what your, that’s obviously depending on your timeframe.

Alex Curtis:
I was going to say, as well, it depends how many advisors you’ve got, as well. Because if you’re just like a one person outfit, you’ll want all the inquiries coming to you. Whereas, you might want to filter some inquiries because you don’t want a manual process. Like, you want to be able to then to tick remortgaged buy-to-let, whatever, so it filters off to that particular advisor or that admin or that person that would call them back, as well.

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah.

Alex Curtis:
There’s all sorts of things to think about.

Tom Maplethorpe:
Should we talk about then, the different options that we’ve got?

Alex Curtis:
Yeah.

Tom Maplethorpe:
And then, the kind of main ones. You’ve got, like your standard you box standard form, which we find works very well. And then, you’ve got your chatbot, you’ve got chatbots like these landbots. In fact, on our own website, we use landbot type forms, as well.

Alex Curtis:
A bit like, is it Trussle that use a sort of type forms sort of thing. Or is it Habito? Hard to explain what a type form is. I’m just trying to think without the visual aids.

Tom Maplethorpe:
A type form is essentially a form that once you’ve completed one of the questions, it then disappears and shows another one. The first one will be your name, you write your name, then that disappears. Then it sort of like scrolls down to the next on and what you’re looking to do. Whereas, it’s quite similar to a chatbot, where the chatbot is a bit more, it shows in more of like a conversational output, if that makes sense.

Tom Maplethorpe:
You can see the questions or when it comes to the question and then the answers are sort of an answer and it’s almost typed as if you were doing like a sort of like a text conversation. I think Trussle at the minute have gotten like a sort of a type form situation. If anyone’s sort of listening at the time.

Alex Curtis:
But like, I know and we’re going off topic, but it really annoys me when people just want to copy what Trussle or Habito are doing. When that person is a one person, solo broker and they want to copy what a company does, who’s got like hundreds of advisors. It just, it’s not the same business model. It’s like, don’t just copy Trussle or Habito just because they’ve got lots of money and they must be working out. It’s a completely different strategy. [crosstalk 00:06:23].

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah, and the important thing to remember is like you said, they have a lot of money. A lot of there where you’ll be getting a lot of good quality traffic. The good quality traffic they put through their lead capture mechanism. You don’t know, but it may not convert as well as it would say, if you just had a basic form, arguably, but then that’s not how their model works. They want to capture the information that will be resourced to deal with that based on the amount they spend, if you know what I mean. It’s so slightly, but yeah, it’s not the same. It’s not comparing apples with apples because they’ll be getting huge amounts of great quality traffic.

Tom Maplethorpe:
But even if that sort of that type form doesn’t convert as highly as maybe other forms, other kind of more simple forms would, they get the level of information they need for it to be profitable, you would imagine. Whereas, if chances are the vast majority of other brokers won’t be spending that kind of money, won’t be seeing that amount of traffic. They need to get a higher conversion rates from their website to make more of it. And that’s where a simple form is probably more appropriate.

Alex Curtis:
And then, the other thing we probably want to, there is those options of is it like Mortgage Brain, that Twenty7Tec, they’ve got like rates tables with an inquiry now, which essentially would be a form, sorry, a rates table in front of a form, which is another way of going it. I think I’ve made, well, you were on my… I sound like I’m old-fashioned, you were on my webinar this morning. I don’t know if you saw, but I was talking about this. How I don’t like rates-

Tom Maplethorpe:
On the YouTube.

Alex Curtis:
Yeah, so I’m not a fan of rates before form. I think, well, I mean, if anyone’s not seeing that presentation, it’s in the Facebook group, I asked the advisors, “What’s the most important part of their job?” It is the advice, not the access to the products, so why are we trying to advertise the access to the products, ie., having rates before? For me, rates is secondary. It’s we want to sell the advice. It would come back then to if you sell the advice well, that form with the little message box, if you can get them to a point where they’ve decided they know that you can help them. You’ve got the knowledge, you’ve got the expertise you come across in a way where you want to put my situation before yours, I can tell you what to help me.

Alex Curtis:
Oh, I just want to tell you what the problem is on the form and then expect the call back and all good. Especially, coming back to, I suppose, the original point that I made. I’m not fond of rates tables, Tom, do you? Are you?

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah, no, I’d agree. I would just say people are looking for like, in terms of even on the search, for things like mortgage rates, they’re not, like you said, they’re not actually looking for the advice. Then they immediately become a tough sell as soon as they land on your webpage. Because they’re not looking for advice. The chances of them turning into a lead are probably going to be minuscule because all they’re looking for is the rate.

Tom Maplethorpe:
And if they want a rate, they can find that on sort of comparison sites, do it that way, go straight through to the lender and that’s fine. But the real value in a mortgage broker and a mortgage advisor is sort of coming up with that kind of, that strategy of okay, what’s the right product? What’s the right product for me now? And what’s the right product for me next? And what’s sort of going to happen, what are the things going to happen in the next two to five years? And it sort of helps you sort of find what the right product is, and also thinking about product incentive.

Tom Maplethorpe:
You might have a higher rate mortgage, but it potentially has a no upfront fee. And then, that mortgage advisors can help you work out okay, what’s actually financially going to be the best for you over two or five or a six year period or whatever it is with all those things taken into account?

Tom Maplethorpe:
Whereas, if you’re just a rate shopper, you’re just looking for the lowest rate, then you’re not really open to that advice of finding that kind of like mortgage strategy, for use for a better term.

Alex Curtis:
And then you’ve got like, I suppose we did a bit with, I suppose it was more in the life insurance side. It was that whole kind of full on application online, which I don’t know if it kind of leads people, if you’d have like a massive form, like to where it kind of makes people think that they’re going to get a result at the end, rather than are they disappointed when they don’t get a rate at the end. It’s just, “Oh, we’ll call you back.”

Alex Curtis:
It’s just like, “Oh, I’ve just filled all that in just to get a call back.” Like, I think that’s another reason why to simplify that form, as well.

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah, definitely. Because I think people in a lot of ways, they’re sort of used to getting, like you say, with insurance, and it’s a great example. And also, with things like personal finance, personal loans. People are used to filling out something online and getting a result back immediately. And if they’re sort of in that sort of frame of mind with a mortgage, you think, “Oh, okay, I’m going to get a mortgage sorted at the end of this web form.” And they’re not, it’s a bit like, “Oh, well that’s not ideal.” And that’s were we try and be sort of like upfront about what’s going to happen. Because there’s no point capturing a lot of leads, trying to do dupe them in thinking they can get something else when they’re not.

Tom Maplethorpe:
Because they’re just not going to pick up the phone. And all you do is waste the money getting them in and waste the time trying to ring them when they’re not interested in a phone call. We’ve sort of think, okay, be best to be up front about it, even though not being as up front about it may get you more leads in and you may be sort of get more attractive cost per lead or whatever else. I think ultimately in the backend when to see what actually goes through and converts and how much time you spend actually working those, you’re probably better off just being upfront, seeing a high cost per lead, seeing fewer leads through, but it tends to be better quality.

Alex Curtis:
And it’s all about that. Cost per acquisition.

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah. Exactly, exactly. Cost per lead is just like a metric on the way to a number of other metrics. We also look at things like cost per click, which is when the whole is, in the grand scheme is really fairly irrelevant. It’s important to us because we need to sort of it’s one of the indicators that shows us what is, or isn’t working as part of various campaigns. But if you’re going to measure one thing, don’t do a cost per lead. Yeah, do it absolutely on cost per acquisition.

Alex Curtis:
I suppose one, if people are, so I suppose a lot of people listening will just be like, “Guys, just tell me what to put on and I’ll put it on.” But other people will want to kind of, we’ll have some marketing people that will want to sort of test different things. And I guess the most important thing is to set up in Google Analytics, a goal. You can easily see firstly where it’s coming from, but the rates at which it converts, because it can kind of tell you a lot of information that from every 10 people that go, is there one person or two people or three people, or is it six out of a 100 or whatever it is? So that you can then work out. But also, it’s not just how many leads you get.

Alex Curtis:
Again, it comes back to that cost per acquisition. Isn’t it? You want to report back as far as you can go, because what we found with the chatbots, I suppose, we were getting cheaper leads more through, but less converting to sale.

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah, absolutely. That’s where like you said, your reporting is really important because you chances are a more lengthier form, if that’s something that you wanted to do, would probably convert better on things like organic traffic and maybe some Google Pay traffic. Particularly, on organic traffic, you’d expect it to, but then it may not convert very well from Facebook traffic, for example. If you’re doing a paid Facebook campaign or even just your, what we would call organic social stuff. But then, those those metrics tell you what converts best and what doesn’t.

Tom Maplethorpe:
And then, you may want to think, okay, well, so, okay, so this page converts really well on organic and Google PPC, but not on Facebook. You may want to consider changing something else in your Facebook one. Having a shorter form or something that makes it easier for people to get in touch. Or like, I would say like the one in the box, maybe a landbot or typeform could be better in its place.

Alex Curtis:
I guess some people are thinking, why would Facebook Ad traffic behave in a different way? And I guess it’s the someone’s searching on Google, they’ve like, “Right, I’m going to solve this mortgage thing out. I need to remortgage or I’ve got this buy-to-let offer,” whatever it is. They’re in the zone. They’re doing it. They’re searching online. They’re in that moment. They want to achieve something and get it done. Whereas, we’re on Facebook because pretty much we’re bored or we’re stalking our ex-girlfriend or boyfriend or whatever.

Alex Curtis:
You all know I do that, or have gone. But it’s a completely different mindset. Isn’t it? Your, so that’s why, and then you can get in front of people on Facebook who have been recently interacting in like remortgaged content or they’ve been on remortgaged pages. They are in the zone of if something’s going on, they, or they’ve completed that. Or something has put them in that audience.

Alex Curtis:
But in that minute, when they go and view your website, the mindset is slightly different as-

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah, exactly. Exactly that. We started with Facebook and Facebook Ads. It’s, it’s done on interest based, but you can’t necessarily get that context right, of them wanting it now, then that’s what Google gives you. What’s typically, sort of Facebook traffic is cheaper and you can get cheaper leads through Facebook. Nothing does quite beat that Google Ads element of people searching for it there then wanting it now.

Tom Maplethorpe:
There’s almost a difference between what you call, and being content marketing and context marketing. Context being in terms of, okay, what does somebody want to read or listen to or do right now? We find Facebook can be a bit better, further up the funnel, in terms of providing the content, finding the information and getting them to a place where they’re ready to convert. That’s when they tend to do the searches on Google and that’s where you need to be there for when they’re ready to essentially turn from interested traffic into leads.

Alex Curtis:
In terms of also, the other thing I wanted to talk about was, I can’t remember if we’ve mentioned already. Is someone was asking me the other day about like, “What should I put in my magnet?” And they were talking about having obviously like a PDF locked behind a form. And then, actually I was doing some, because I’m so famous now, Tom, some of the mortgage networks have been asking me to spill the beans and do some webinars.

Alex Curtis:
And then, one, I was reviewing some websites and one, there was one person who had lead magnets on there saying you would have to fill out a form to download this remortgage brochure or whatever it was. But he was asking for the phone number and I’ve seen, not necessarily, but in my sort of history of seeing in different industries, people asking for like name, address, phone number to download a PDF, which is mental.

Alex Curtis:
For me, I would either most ask for name and email in that situation and not expect and not necessarily even have to do that. I mean, we don’t do like lead magnets for clients, do we?

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah, that’s right. And then, the thing to remember with lead magnets is whatever is behind that wall, that login wall, that where you’ve got to put in your, sorry, your name and your email address. Whatever’s on the back of that, it’s got to be really good and really sort of really kind of a one off piece or specialized or piece of content because there is so much content out there elsewhere. For me, I sort of look at them and think, “Okay, yeah, you can get this guide. You can get this PDF, but you’re going to have to enter your email, as well.” I’m pretty sure I could just get this from anywhere else without having to do that on a different website, particularly with things like financial services, where there is a lot of content out there.

Tom Maplethorpe:
But yeah, it’s with lead magnets in general, it’s a bit of a tough one in the sense that with a lead magnet, you tend to maybe need them because you’re not converting people into inquiries yet or the traffic that’s going to your website, isn’t yet ready to become an inquiry.

Tom Maplethorpe:
And that is so in that instance, I think for us, we, I’m not sure we’d do too much really where in terms of driving that kind of traffic, when you know you can get people that are [crosstalk 00:16:36] ready to go through Google Ads. Again, it might be a bit more expensive, the cost per lead, maybe. Well, it probably will almost definitely be higher than the cost of getting somebody on a lead magnet.

Tom Maplethorpe:
But then, the outcome is going to be far more positive, a lot quicker. And the thing with the lead magnet is there’s a lot of nurturing that needs to go on after that, to turn that actually into some business. A lot of tweaking and a lot of sort of changes here and there and make sure the right emails go in the right timeframe and have someone click on this email.

Tom Maplethorpe:
No, they haven’t. Okay, then let’s see this one or if they have, well, then you’d see a different one. The lead magnets and the flows like that do need to be really intricate to make the most out of them. And it’s a lot of effort. A lot of time does need to go into them. And then for us, I think we would always sort of think that that time when you convert it into money, it’s probably better spent some more context-focused ads of people being in the place ready to buy.

Alex Curtis:
Do you know what I think? The other specialism that I did a lot of work in historically, randomly, was sports products. We found that sort of the brochure, PDF behind the form. We would go, on the product page, we would have, book a demo, get a quote, download the brochure, and there would be different forms for each.

Alex Curtis:
And that would be like each stage of the buying cycle was covered off. And then, what we would find was people will go in, download the brochure and then 10, 15 minutes later, get a quote or book a demo. That works for that. And it worked really well. But and then there will be, so then there’ll be a lot of marketers who work in all sorts of industries who will bang on about how great lead magnets are because they are and they have worked in other areas. I mean, a lead magnet would work for us for example, because the people don’t have to. A lot of the time, a mortgage is at a certain point and then they stop and then it’s parts of people. It’s different to wanting leads or marketing.

Alex Curtis:
If you’ve got a business, you always want to market better. In our situation, a lead magnet could work well. Yeah. It’s, I think that’s a problem. There’s a lot of marketers saying, talk about lead magnets because they have worked in other industries. But in mortgages, I don’t think you necessarily, well, I know you don’t necessarily need them because you can get inquiries through like good content. If someone wants help in that moment, and you can get across that you are trustworthy, build rapport with them, make it really transparent about what you do that they want. They need the help. They want your advice. They just want to speak to someone they can trust and someone they know that can help them that’s not going to waste their time.

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah. And also, yeah, because I think on that sports products side, well, it wasn’t also the products, as well, like very specialized.

Alex Curtis:
Oh, yeah, a 100%. Yeah. Things like it was like portable floodlights.

Tom Maplethorpe:
That’s right.

Alex Curtis:
It was like, literally, if you are… Because you were looking at them for your football thing.

Tom Maplethorpe:
That’s right. Yes, that’s right. When we first started working together before yeah, that’s right. We were interested for [inaudible 00:19:24] ourselves. Yeah, they were really sort of specialized products. There wasn’t loads of racks of information out there on other sites, either. But yeah, interesting.

Alex Curtis:
There were two competitors, it was really unique product. It’s a completely different thing to like there’s more mortgage brokers than there are houses, almost. But there was only two players in that specific market, so that strategy worked really well for them. But you can’t, even with, we find with different brands, like you can’t just copy and paste a website and it will work for another one. This, I think the principles that I bang on about, about people buy from people, et cetera, they work. But it’s like, you can’t sometimes if you will work, and we’ve seen that on Facebook.

Alex Curtis:
We’ve run an ad. You could run an ad with one brand that is exactly the same, the image and the content, but it wouldn’t work on a different brand. Because there could be one word and that’s, I think that’s the same with like forms and things like that. It just depends.

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah. 100%. And we do see that. We do see ads in terms of we have seen, okay, so similar-ish websites in terms of like that the structure of the page, the brands are quite different, but with them saw similar amounts of similar quality traffic, but one converted really well the landbot, one converted really well with the form. The important thing to do is remember is to test it. That is sort of what we have done. We like to start with something like a simple form, because we know broadly it tends to convert the best. On your answer it’s quite easy or reasonably easy to sort of split test.

Tom Maplethorpe:
Whether you’re doing Facebook, Google and send things to different landing pages and compare and see what the conversion rates are like. And then also, it’s not just the conversion rate of what turns from click to lead, but then what are the types of leads that they bring? Because that’s a big one that we had in terms of sense of what business finance.

Tom Maplethorpe:
We found that we had switched from a form to a landbot, we generated a lot more inquiries. Say if we’re talking conversion rates, previously converted at say 13% from click to lead. We then, switched that from a form to a landbot. That conversion rate went up to about 17%, but overall the leads weren’t as good. And it was almost like out of that, 100 people say take a 100 people, the 17 that we were now converting were different from the 15 people that we were doing before. About 13 or whatever, in terms of, if you imagine them as conversion rate.

Tom Maplethorpe:
That 17% was a totally different segment from the 15% that were converting before. And it all came down to the psychology of it. While we were getting high numbers through, the people that actually use the landbot for whatever reason, weren’t as good at quality in this instance, on the business finance side to people that were, that ended up using the form.

Alex Curtis:
I think that’s why we, and with that particular client, we do a, like a metric of cost per good app, that we’ve made up ourselves. CPGA, where we get reports. It will be obviously, if the client would say to us, “Yeah, this is good. We can do some of this or it’s not.” So it was very, what’s the right word. I can’t think of the right word. It’s not like a machine, it’s the client saying based on the conversation they’ve had, it’s good, it’s not.

Alex Curtis:
And then, that helps us create a cost with good app. And we can link that back to specific search terms, specific pages that they’ve gone on, specific forms of data entry that they’ve used, whether it was like you say a landbot, or the form and get a cost per good app for the landbot, for that particular keyword. The cost per good app for the application form for that particular keyword, et cetera.

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah, and once we started doing that, once we got, started getting that feedback, I think we reallocated about 40% of the budget.

Alex Curtis:
Oh yeah, we did. There was one particular-

Tom Maplethorpe:
Particular keyword.

Alex Curtis:
I can’t remember the keyword that was bringing in and we were like, “Oh, cost per lead is awesome.” But then, when we started doing the cost per good app, it was like-

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah. And it was nothing. And on the face of it, you would never, so it’s not like they were polarizing the different. There was a variation.

Alex Curtis:
It was a finance rather than a loan [crosstalk 00:23:01].

Tom Maplethorpe:
It was the difference between the loan and lending between them.

Alex Curtis:
Yeah, yeah.

Tom Maplethorpe:
That was the difference between the loan and lending. Lending we got, yeah, decent volumes of… The cost was a slightly cheaper than it was for loans, but in terms of not amazingly different. But the volume is right. We’re getting, yeah, great volumes for it. But then, we actually went back and fed them through. And so, okay, so what’s actually turned into business? And the lending [crosstalk 00:23:22].

Alex Curtis:
Yeah, we [crosstalk 00:23:22].

Tom Maplethorpe:
With all the notes. Which, we just, yeah, that day. We just switched it all over. Because it was data from a good few months. Then we switched completely over to the other side. It was such a good use of spend.

Alex Curtis:
Absolutely. And this is why I like don’t envy the guys and girls that are listening that are, just have the brokerage and got no black book and want to get some leads. Want to do it quickly, and we’ve just talked about 30 minutes and basically not told them the answer on the phone. Like, there’s no answer, depends.

Alex Curtis:
It’s I don’t envy their situation at all. And I’m not surprised and why people turn to them purchasing leads, because people are saying that it’s 25 good, 30 good lead, here’s a remortgaged lead for 50 quid. Or because it’s that much less complicated than worrying about all these different forms and things.

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah. Nothing, yeah and the form. The forms is just a small percentage of it. It’s how we say, the rest is the quality of traffic. I don’t know where you get that quality traffic. And sometimes, you can think you’re getting quality traffic, but it’s not converting. You think well, why? There are so many, so many permutations and variables. But yeah. Well, it’s basically, so I suppose, what keeps us in a job. It is say full-time job.

Alex Curtis:
Yeah. And I was going to say, yes, to be honest, if it was mega easy, you wouldn’t need, nobody would need us. But I think coming back to it though, that we have got that kind of entry level, we know that there is that basic form that make it really easy.

Alex Curtis:
Also, give people options, like give people the phone number. If you’re happy to do the WhatsApp, give people the option to tap to WhatsApp. If there is a general rule, if like you just want a website, you don’t, you haven’t got time to be looking at and you don’t even know what analytics is, that basic form name, phone number, email, message. Don’t even put a title on it at the top of like request a call back or ask more info. Just have that form on there, on every single page. Before they, when their mouse has got to go over it to exit and close the tab. It could be the difference. Oh, actually, I will just actually ask this. And a bit more about like, it is sometimes it’s the way our brains work. It’s can be as simple as that. If we have totally confused you for 30 minutes, follow that and do that. And that will, in most cases, I think get the best results you’re looking for.

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah. 100%.

Alex Curtis:
But don’t forget those principles. You know, if you are going to hide behind a logo, if you’re not going to show people who you are, tell people who you are, if you’re only interested in, if you want to lock away information, rather than share it, then you’re going to find it more difficult than those that do. I think.

Alex Curtis:
I suppose the form is only, like you said, only one element. It’s not the be all and end all. There’s no shortcuts. You have got a lot of options, but just do this. To be honest, like the rule for all of it, like we normally find we’ll test everything. It’s normally the simplest thing is, well, what works.

Tom Maplethorpe:
Definitely. Definitely. And that’s the thing. And it has come down to that. Yeah. Like you said. Make it easy for people to get in touch with you. The amount of websites you go on and you think, “Okay, so I’ve got a nice, nice message in my sort of homepage banner and you scroll down. I’ve got forms of right in the bottom, a useful thing. Okay. That does have a value because if people sort of read through the content, they start to think.” Would it convert better with that form at the top? In terms of, because then people can scroll up or scroll down to get to it or they can just so that points to the details and straight away if they know that’s what they want to do.

Tom Maplethorpe:
And then, that’s the thing. Because some things sort of forms if it’s on banners can seem a bit not unsightly, but then they’re not as aesthetic as some of those awesome home or web page designs that don’t have a form at the top. And I’d agree. I think that there’s a lot of sites that look better without the form in the banner. But they don’t convert as well.

Alex Curtis:
Yeah, yeah, exactly [crosstalk 00:26:59].

Tom Maplethorpe:
The harsh realities of website design and website build is that often the best designed websites don’t really convert all that well.

Alex Curtis:
Yeah.

Tom Maplethorpe:
That’s when you sort of go through, if you’re on Google and you’re looking at kind of like sort of really high volume keywords, things like say like take like remortgage, for example, the stuff that gets the highest volume stuff. If you click on those ads and the webpages, they also follow a similar template, that didn’t look that good. You sort of, if you’re going to say, “Is this the website, the best website I’ve seen that’s bidding on some of the highest click cost keywords?” You say, “Well, no, definitely not.” But they do tend to convert better. Because they just make it easy for people to do it. And making it easier for people to do it, isn’t the same as a website looking great, unfortunately.

Alex Curtis:
And the problem is we, I think a lot of the time we get a new business, we start out, get a new, nice new website. We’ll get a designer to make something look beautiful and then we’ll share it on LinkedIn. And our friends will say, “Oh, it looks awesome. Brilliant.” They tend to be the ones that don’t convert that well. The ones where you’re kind of like you say, “It’s not as good looking.” It’s just and there, it’s kind of, I use the example in, I don’t know if I mentioned this, Tom, but some of the mortgage networks have been asking me to do webinars. But using cars, it was like sometimes actually the, how is it? The I was at the Dacia Sandero is better than a Ferrari in terms of, if that Ferrari’s got no engine and you can’t drive it and no one can see, like what’s the point?

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah.

Alex Curtis:
Sometimes it’s like, an efficient, not that the, I probably should have used like a hybrid vehicle or something. The more efficient, less jazzy website will convert better.

Tom Maplethorpe:
We see it all the time. And you know, you just sort of see websites that have things like, videos in the banner and things like that. And think, “Oh, yeah, because it looks smart.” It’s like well, yeah, it does, but it doesn’t turn views into leads is the problem. And that’s the point of the vast majority of websites, really.

Alex Curtis:
Yeah, yeah, no, it is, really. I think some people will want to get and like we’ve had, since they’ve launched their site, I think people were just like, “Oh, I just want an online business card. I just want to look smart.”

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that brochure website. Yeah.

Alex Curtis:
Okay, cool.

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah. [crosstalk 00:28:54]. And then, there have been instances, and I think you did mention earlier on. I think that’s why we do have that option in the site builder. Or it doesn’t necessarily have a form in the top. Because for some people, it is like you say, it’s just that the online business card, with that online point of reference to prove that they are a real business.

Alex Curtis:
Yeah, that’s right. [crosstalk 00:29:11]. I had this guy this morning. He was like, “Look, I don’t want to try and generate leads through the site because I don’t want to… What I’ve found historically was people just asking me like loads questions that were too early on. They were like, they had no deposit.” Or it was like, he literally just wanted a website to look good for his referrals.

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah.

Alex Curtis:
Like, “I don’t want people coming to my website who don’t know me. I’ve been going for quite a while. I’ve got a really good black book. I just want to look smart, Alex, I’ll leave it to you, you… We’ll go over the template.” He’s like, “Maybe, which one do you think is best?” Boom, boom, boom-boom, boom. Yeah, it’s if you want to generate leads off of strangers, because you haven’t got that black book, then you’ve got to think about it more. But you can. Yeah, there’s nothing wrong with having a good looking website to impress people. Especially, maybe if you’re doing a lot of high net worth stuff or you’re doing investors bridging or something like that. And it is all going to be off referrals, it just needs to look, yeah. They look like the [crosstalk 00:00:30:00].

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah. That is a good point. Like the high net worth stuff. That like you say, that does tend to be, that’s not all necessarily as much of an online search. That is sort of going to be more through referrals. We know from the keyword, the keyword research in terms of those. There are searches there for high net worth mortgages and like a reasonable number, but probably not as many searches as you would expect people are looking for them, if you know what I mean.

Tom Maplethorpe:
Because it will be a doctor on ridiculous salary will ask his doctor mate [crosstalk 00:30:27].

Alex Curtis:
Or something like that. Yeah. But there is such that we’re not as opposed to say, for example, the general public that they tends to sort of search for mortgages online. And like you say, they sort of don’t necessarily search in that space. In terms of turning them into leads on a website, is it actually a different sort of proposition than it is from perhaps some of this or maybe a more regular mortgage applicant. And we see a lot with things like wealth management, as well, regardless of like the psychology and sort of the structure of your websites, trying to encourage someone to get in touch. They’re not going to do it unless they trust you. And that’s why we still pay those kind of wealth management sort of websites, they do need to perhaps look a bit better.

Alex Curtis:
Maybe not be so quite so heavy on the conversion rate, optimization of squeezing every visitor into a lead or to that maximum percentage because no one’s going to get in touch. And sort of have that conversation because, well, it’s particularly wealth management. Because they’ve still got something to lose. With mortgages and mortgages we find that you don’t normally have too much to lose by having sort of that conversation.

Alex Curtis:
But if you make a bad decision with some of your investments and it can be really, really sort of costly. Obviously, it can be costly if you make a bad decision in your mortgage. But if something doesn’t go ahead for whatever reason, then you know, potentially no one’s out, that the user is necessarily out of pocket. Yes, it’s slightly different when the stakes are a bit higher, that it comes more into sort of like the brand, the perception, the trust and credibility that go into it, rather than the psychology of the webpage builder.

Tom Maplethorpe:
I think we’ve covered a lot of grounds home. I do feel like we’ve not given people an answer. But we didn’t do that with, what was the other one we did recently? And I got those really good feedback on it.

Alex Curtis:
Oh, okay. Good. Well, I think the overriding thing is if you’re not sure, simple form. And I think that will be the right answer for 90% of the listeners.

Tom Maplethorpe:
Do those principles can’t encourage people enough to get themselves out there. It’s the advice that people are paying for, not the access. It’s like, I hope there’ll be a day when we don’t, we could Google a mortgage thing and none of the 10 websites on page one have mentioned that they’ve got access to 50 lenders at the top. Then, I think we can [crosstalk 00:32:28] possibly. Well, we’ll no longer be needed.

Alex Curtis:
Yeah.

Tom Maplethorpe:
We’ll go and work at something else. We’ll go X-Craft on it.

Alex Curtis:
Yeah. [inaudible 00:32:37].

Tom Maplethorpe:
It’s a whole different colored fish.

Alex Curtis:
Doing something different. Open a sausage factory.

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah. We’ll do sports products, yeah?

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah, nice. Get those-

Alex Curtis:
Those portable football floodlights. Design our own.

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah, we could do. Get the lead magnet back out.

Alex Curtis:
[inaudible 00:32:52]. Yeah, sorry. Cool. Right. We’re going to be back with more, the feedback I got Tom that people actually liked our episodes.

Tom Maplethorpe:
Oh, really?

Alex Curtis:
We’re going to still, yeah. Someone actually said, oh, what was it? I can’t think of the right phrase, but it was like, “They were not in the mood to hear about what another broker was up to.” It did go kind of heavy on the, because they were quite popular. Those episodes, finding out what other people are doing. We are going to even out a bit more and talk a bit more about this, as well. I think variety is the spice of life. I’ve got some good catch up episodes with people coming up soon.

Tom Maplethorpe:
Mm-hmm (affirmative), nice.

Alex Curtis:
And they do get a really good reaction and but we’re going to be doing more of these, as well. We’ll be back. Speak to you soon. Let us know, actually in the Facebook group, if someone wants a topic covered off, I mean, and we, I sort of pick this up from, we do the virtual coffee, the Facebook group and the whole sort of lead magnet thing came up for conversation in there. Shout us if you want, if you’re stuck on anything, give us the ideas. We’ll, me and Tom can chat all day.

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah. And we’ll try and give you a hard answer when we can. It is difficult. I think we’re doing quite well giving a firm answer oN what we would [crosstalk 00:33:57],

Alex Curtis:
Well, it’s like saying, oh, it’s like someone doing an episode on what mortgage should I have?

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You can’t answer that in a one in a one sentence thing, obviously.

Alex Curtis:
No.

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah, no, good analogy.

Alex Curtis:
Yeah. If we get any reviews where saying, “Oh, these guys just talk nonsense, they don’t give us a proper answer,” and you were a mortgage broker, then shame on you.

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah. I was going to say, “What mortgage should I have?”

Alex Curtis:
Yeah. We’ll just, we’ll actually set up a bot just to send you emails every day. What mortgage should I have? What mortgage should I have? Leave nice reviews [crosstalk 00:34:28].

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah, very good.

Alex Curtis:
Nice one.

Tom Maplethorpe:
Yeah.

Alex Curtis:
And we will see everyone soon, glistening next week. See you later.

Tom Maplethorpe:
Reach your later, bye.

Alex Curtis:
Bye.

081 – Lee Flanagan On Lockdown

081 - Lee Flanagan On Lockdown
081 - Lee Flanagan On Lockdown

It hasn’t been that long since we spoke to Lee Flanagan but a lot has happened since then!

During lockdown, Lee has a big team to motivate and he kindly invited me along to every session Bespoke has held. Each time I spend time with the Bespokers it gives me a massive lift so I wanted to share that with you all.

077 – Kathryn Knowles – Cura

077 - Kathryn Knowles - Cura
077 - Kathryn Knowles - Cura

About this episode

Hello, and welcome back to the lead generation for financial services podcast. This week we have Kathryn Knowles from the financial industry and current directors of Cura Financial Services.

They help people get the insurance that they need especially people that have high-risk jobs or people that are having a hard time to get the kind of health protection they need. They have a string of industry-trained experts dedicated to achieving the best insurance for your needs and your family.

Every week, Kathryn produces educational video to promote life protection and demonstrate how insurance and special risks work altogether. She’s doing a tactical protection podcast along with his co-host Andrew Wimberly and they talk about how you can be protected and insured.

To speak with their team, whether you have a general insurance question or need help finding the right plans or policies for you, please follow them on Twitter, LinkedIn and Facebook or go to their website https://www.specialrisksbureau.co.uk/

075 – Stuart Powell – Equity Release Marketing

075 - Stuart Powell - Equity Release Marketing
075 - Stuart Powell - Equity Release Marketing

About this episode

Hello, and welcome back to the lead generation for financial services podcast. This week we have got an equity release advisor, Stuart Powell.

A lot of negative views and beliefs are being said whenever we advertise equity release because of the way the people have seen or heard situations which is not good because of equity release.

Modern equity release is better than the old equity release. Interests are lower and there’s no negative equity guarantee for every product.

Stuart, an equity release adviser in Plymouth, used different methods to show people why modern equity release is much better.

He created short Youtube videos as well to send the message across about the pros and cons of equity release and educate both clients, or other introduces as to why it’s good for the older generation, but also why it’s good for other financial services businesses to understand a little bit more about it.

Stuart used case studies to show real-life situations, approach, steps taken and evaluating outcomes concerning equity release. Case studies will show how much money a previous client saved each month or this is how much less the interest is accumulating.

Before considering if equity release is the right option for you, you must check on the following conditions such as:
age
earnings
the money you can release
future plans

Always talk to a professional financial adviser when making these decisions. They will be able to help you understand whether equity release is right for you.

Full Transcription

Alex: Hello, my friends in financial services welcome back to the podcast this week I’ve got an equity release advisor. And wow, we’ve talked about loads of stuff, loads of tips from Stuart probably more tips per minute than you get from your marketing expert. And so I think one thing for us as a business when we’ve helped people advertise equity release is a lot of negative kinds of thoughts and opinions of how things were done before a lot of people that are in situations or heard of people in situations that are not good because of equity release. And I’ve seen Stewart sort of on a bit of a mission to try and he’s very passionate about getting this message across that modern equity release is much better. There’s just so much in this episode of like how to negotiate with the press. We talk a lot about videos. So Stuart messaged me and emailed me in June about videos and him starting that video journey. We talk a lot about that. It’s just such an interesting story about partnerships as well about how to focus on marketing to get partnerships not just to get cold leads. So whether you do mortgages, life equity release, or don’t even work in financial services, there’s so much you can get out of this episode from a marketing perspective. So, I want to introduce you to Stuart. How is an equity release at fly advisor in Plymouth used to work in banking used to work in Debenhams went out on his own after sort of a long corporate career and it’s really fascinating to see where he is at now. Hello, and welcome back to the lead generation for financial services podcast and I’ve got a very special guest on today. I have got Mr Stuart Powell. How are you doing today?

Stuart: Hi, how are you? I’m very good. Thank you mate. Thanks for setting this up. Be nice to have a chat.

Alex: Yeah, no, absolutely. I was just well, we just before we hit record, I was just pulling out an old email that you sent me and I couldn’t remember the date of it. And I think I sent you an email on kind of pop my sort of email sequence about doing videos. In fact, I think it’s Yeah, it’s entitled, you have to make bad videos to make good videos.

Stuart: Yeah.

Alex: He said, you’ve inspired me after listening to this podcast. We now have a YouTube video and four videos on equity release.

Stuart: Yeah, yes. Take a look. Give me some feedback.

Alex: So that was June 2019. We’re now January 2020. So what six months ago and now I’m seeing the videos that you’re doing now and you’ve got like you see you’re not hiring in a sort of production crew and things like what it looks like.

Stuart: Oh, yeah, we got producers, directors, actors, we’ve got that now. Yeah, you know, I think where we were with the business around June and your podcast on, you know, try it. If it goes badly, that’s good because you learn a lot and the rule and this is exactly what people want to see. So I think to start with Sammy, my office manager and I were at probably a simply biz seminar down in Cornwall somewhere and we were on a break, and we were just playing around with the laptop of mom now actually, and just recording a couple of videos out in the sunshine in their garden, and just talking about equity release and she was interviewing me and we were playing around and they were good enough to release but they kind of inspired me to give it more of a go and then I listened to your podcast and yeah, don’t worry about it. If it’s bad, just start somewhere. So yeah, I went into the office. Did I think about a five-minute video? And it got really good feedback even though it was grainy and wobbly but yeah, that’s where it started. Yeah, June last year.

Alex: Yeah. Wow. Okay. It’s great. I love it because like, well, the thing is with having podcasts you don’t get more ratio of feedback to listeners is very different to anything else. Because like on a podcast, there’s no natural place to comment or anything. People have to take the time out to send you a message. So like when you’re putting videos on YouTube is easy to comment and you put posts on Facebook, it’s easy to come up with a podcast, there’s nowhere to comment. So I only get the old kind of message pin when people do actually reach out and it normally is because they’ve done something so it’s always like, brilliant to hear that something that we’ve done has kind of affected someone else. So it was really.

Stuart: Yeah, no, that’s good. I sent you a quick message to say thanks you’ve inspired me. Yeah, but I watched it and got some feedback on it. And I think the feedback was great. I love what you’re doing not enough people are talking about equity release. Not enough people are trying to educate both clients or potential clients or other introduces as to why it’s good for the older generation, but also why it’s good for other financial services businesses to understand a little bit more about it. And I went online and went on YouTube and there’s no one really being real online about equity release other than being lossy companies who and millions on production or they’ve got their remember to morph Sony heart and all that they.

Alex: Oh yeah.

Stuart: They’ve got those types of videos which are great. So I decided to probably shorten the videos a little bit. Because the feedback was great, I really like what you’re talking about. But it’s too much information in a five-minute video, why not 1-minute videos. So, so yeah, I thought, right, let’s break them down and literally put something out on LinkedIn. were based in Plymouth. So put something on LinkedIn, then you will know any good videographers. And a guy called Luke Strata was recommended a couple of times and he and I met he came in the office and wow, what a setter. I mean, the cost wasn’t too bad at all. But the camera equipment I know you’ve seen it on some of our LinkedIn vids. It looks like yeah, so being in next Hollywood blockbuster, this coffee breaks a lot.

Alex: And if you’re in a restaurant or a cafe and I was at Stewart’s house, and they were at the tables, that’s definitely a restaurant or a cafe or something. I was like, I’m in the wrong game from and if you can get a house like that.

Stuart: Equity release, and you’re fortunate And I know that you know that we’re very near the home, which is the beautiful see parts of glimmer, the office and we go down there for a coffee sometimes and of course we’re OSHA mortgages notion act to release and the cafes overlooks the ocean and you know in my brain it made sense but the cafe owner said yeah, yeah come down for the morning and then you know just to make sure you have some tea coffee and bacon buses and you can have the room for free and you know, he asked me about the buses I’m honest. Luke and I went down there Luke set up first and I came in and oh my god, he has taken over, probably half that blooming cafe. And yeah, it didn’t seem like a great idea at the time I took the dog down and I don’t you’ve seen the first video but the dogs and James Bond villain stroking the dog up on my lap. I read two minutes before the video started to shit right. So in the cafe as yes and customers are coming in for breakfast so yeah. Not quite as glamorous.

Alex: Yeah.

Stuart: Oh then a storm came so we were filming with the storm in the background so the beautiful ocean waves were quite as I expected but you know you laminate and you’ve got to do better to do it well.

Alex: Well, that’s brilliant. I love that so much has happened to me so much to actually put you off doing it and make it harder to work with it. Let it go baby is still peeling off and I’ve just found my replies to you because I yeah, I think I said yeah, so one thing I think I said was like, Don’t worry about you don’t need an excuse to make the video I think I was like, I think a lot of people do that they sort of when you’re first doing videos, you feel natural. You need to explain why during the video. Yeah. I remember saying that as well. And then yeah, I think I said splitting it up into smaller, smaller ones.

Stuart: Yeah, great.

Alex: Yeah.

Stuart: It was fine because the first step videos were very much okay. The clients out there don’t understand about equity release. So let’s tell them what the process is. Let’s tell them why modern equity release is better than the old equity release. Let’s tell them you know, the interest rates are lower than they’ve ever been. Let’s tell them there’s no negative equity guarantee on just about every product out there. So, you know, there’s a real fear in my world is about equity release. So let’s dispel some of the untruths. Let’s tell people what the process actually is. And let’s try and be a little bit more accessible. There are some really big companies out there doing equity release, you know, you have Vivos, Liverpool, Victoria, and there are some huge broker firms. I think the more local the more family-based business, such as ours is where local older people want to be where they want to be, you know, they want the products they want their people to be from where they’re from, and understand a little bit about them and their world. Does that make sense?

Alex: Yeah, no, that’s exactly what we found when we’ve cuz we’ve run some x release ad campaigns on Facebook. Yeah. We’ve found when we’ve advertised the advisor, rather than a brand, and we’ve made it very personal, they work really well. And the cost per lead is slightly higher than what you typically get with mortgages. Yeah, we brought that down a bit. But the quality when that comes through when we’re advertising the person. What we have found, though, like, you rightly say, a lot of fear, like every ad campaign, we’ve put out, there’ll be loads of people saying this is a scam. Yeah, many of them and we don’t, a lot of our clients aren’t where we’re trying to get. We’re creating written content to dispel the myths but a lot of them don’t want to do video. It would be great if we had with each comment rather than having to hide it. We could put a link out Oh, actually, if you check this, you can see the difference between what you think and what it actually is.

Stuart: Yeah, you know, we played around with some men, we did some Facebook marketing last year and yes, absolutely right. The feedback you get is, you know, it’s quite vitriolic. They don’t hold back. But I was doing it to get that over the phone, but we’ve just experimented with it. And they kept deleting the comments and I’m like, No, no, no, no. If this is the comments we’re getting, we need to address them. So I took over replying to the office as a scam or that you used to get things like oh, my dad took out 70,000 pounds and now he owes 180,000. And I remember one specifically who’d said but you know, you don’t know the backstory, so it could have been his house was repossessed. So we need 70,000 pounds. Therefore 70,000 pounds is a great investment to keep your property or the other thing, and actually, this is what I found now, he has taken it out seven years ago, and the interest rate was 8%. So what actually happened there at the time, it may have been the right thing, but now it’s not that a huge part of our education is well, we need to review it. You know, I was looking at stats the other day, and it’s about 40% of the public are on a standard variable rate for their mortgage for equity release, 92% of the public have never reviewed their rates. Well, that guy went back to and said look really sorry to hear but the interest is accelerated so much more neck to release lets you pay some of the interest, all of the interest and the interest rates start from 2.8%. Why don’t we review that and we reviewed it and got an array of just over 3%? So bring your critics on it. It was brilliant. Because of how many people read that?

Alex: Yeah, fantastic.

Stuart: Yeah, very not so much. And we try to use those case studies because that’s the thing. It’s, you know when we’re talking about rates, when we’re talking about the non-equity release being x, y, and Zed, it doesn’t really mean a lot to people. But when we’re saying this client came to us on an 8% interest rate, we managed to do it for three. This is how much money he saved each month, or this is how much less the interest is accruing by so. So yeah, definitely the case studies would be a tip I’d give any equity release advisors out there, you know, make it real. Use the examples you are doing for clients because that’s what people want to see.

Alex: That’s amazing. I think you may have single-handedly helped, as I was gonna say, millions of people who don’t have lots of light bulbs. Go Often in my brain, I’m sure and you’re on it but I know we get a few people listening to the do equity release as well that are thinking Actually, I can use and you do well that’s made me think of randomly. Have you ever seen suits the

Stuart: Yeah, Meghan Markel and all that.

Alex: Yes. And it just reminded me of Harvey spectre saying when there’s a gun pointed at you, you turn it around and you’ve turned that negative feedback into a positive by going into a colour, no-win situation of someone slagging you off on Facebook, into a new client, you’ve literally acted them, ensure.

Stuart: It’s good to do and you know, it’s quite good for the soul because if you’re putting yourself out there in any context, we started off talking about videos, but this is Facebook advertising yourself out there and people are actually not slacking off your company as such. But then you’re in and you know, my Facebook has got all my friends on my family on and if people are actually seeing The industry I’m in, it’s got a bad reputation, then that tells what I do. So I want people to understand the passion I have for actually getting people to understand that modern equity release actually is a very far cry from where it was five years ago, and actually is the right thing for a lot of people. It’s not the right thing for a lot of people as well. Yes, they need to approach us so that we can, you know, with full integrity, sit down with them and go, actually, it is right for you, or Actually, no, let’s phone your lender and just renegotiate your deal. You know, we’ve done that for a couple of clients where we’ll come into the office, we’ll look at release, and you know, they’re in their late 50s. And I’m like, well, no equity release can’t be right for you at your age, because we don’t want to pay the interest and the amount you’re learning when you get to the age you’re probably going to get to is a huge chunk of the likely value of your property. So let’s speak to your life. And see if they will let you continue on your interest-only mortgage, let’s be about other options for you. And if none of those options work, actually, equity release might be right for you. But it has to be right for the person at the time, the wise people and says, actually, I think equity release might be suitable for you, but in five years, but in five to 10 years, so let’s stay in touch over the next few years and see if your position changes. So I think integrity has to be a huge part of it, which is why we’ve got to get out there and talk to more people.

Alex: Yeah, absolutely. I think just linking this back to video so if I put myself in. So my mom is 70.

Stuart: Yeah.

Alex: She wasn’t elite mortgage-free debt-free. If she wasn’t, and I am. I worked in a different industry and I didn’t know about equity release, and I didn’t know about any sort of financial services like that. I would be worried about my mom at her age sitting down with any kind of financial advisor without me being there? Yeah, because they watched too much rogue traders and stuff like that and you’re very protective over your parents. So linking this back to Vivio I think the great thing about video for me, if I was looking at it for her, and I saw you doing all these videos and you come across the way you do, I would feel much more confident picking up the phone to you and saying, Can you sit down with my mom and talk to her about it? Because I’ve got to know you a little bit and like you say, integrity, and trust.

Stuart: Yeah.

Alex: Really, really important for me and I think there’s a lot of people who are like me.

Stuart: I totally agree. And, you know, I can hear myself saying this to clients and I’ve said it’s a mom, dad that five years ago, I wouldn’t have done equity release for my mom and dad. Today without a doubt. In fact, we’re talking about at the moment I would get mum and dad to do it. And if someone can say that they would advise their parents to do something like, I think that’s hugely rare of how they feel about it. And yeah, you’re right that the videos do help because people see you, people get to know you a little bit and it’s only a little bit isn’t it because it’s a one minute, but they see you, they see you with the dog, they see your family business, and that does grow some confidence. And we, you know, but it’s only one part of many, I would say, you know, our reviews are fundamental to us. Both have good reviews and are vouched for and vouch for, I think a brilliant company, who have really helped our business grow with their reviews and the way they do things. I also think if you’re looking for an equity release advisor for your family, or for you, your business to work with Got to be by referral. So who would someone recommend? And you know, are they a good company ethically? And that’s tricky to work out. And are they a member of the equity release council? That’s the one that I would look at, you know, the equity release Council have standards for our industry. If an advisor or a company is part of that to release counsel, actually, they’re taking steps to almost certificate how reliable they are. So yeah, videos are important, Alex, but I think, as a part of several other issues that people should consider.

Alex: Absolutely. Do you think the equity release counts or do enough to make people aware that they as a body should be you know, they are that stamp of authority because you go to a website and you see that there but I think a lot of consumers may not know what that means.

Stuart: Excellent question. I had this conversation with the equity release Council, probably about six months ago, I was in contact with the chairman, the CEO and the marketing department. And it was good. I’d made the videos. And then I thought, well, let’s connect to the risk councils website, see what videos they got? And check. No, no joking at all. I think the most up to date video was from 2016. And maybe 2017. I think they modernized recently and went to the marketing department. I said, Look, I don’t understand. And we are trying to get across to people how modern equity release has changed how the products for everyone out there. But your videos are just not up to date. I’ve made some videos, how about I send them to you. And you have a look, why not use them on your website. And they’ve used to, I should have told you. Sorry, I haven’t told you that.

Alex: I think I mentioned something about the equity release count. So like you said, I got a mention in a blog or something.

Stuart: They put two of the videos on their website and we’ve set up a YouTube channel with all of our videos and they learn this but I completely understand if they can’t be seen to be promoting one company. And you know, my argument to that was no, I don’t want you to. I want you to show the equity release advisers out there, what is possible, you make videos, and make them interesting, make them popular, and we’ll publish yours too. They started off with it’s become my famous video now. It’s the Wendy Bohunan video and it’s a lovely lady from Plymouth who first got in contact with me last year, who and she’d seen an advert I put up a local glossy Plymouth magazine that goes up to about $40,000 And she’d seen it and she saw the family. The family photo as I call it. My wife sent me the office manager and the dog and then said I’ll, you know, bulk bloke with glasses looks like a nice chap. They think I’ll get him around. So I wrote around to see her and she was in a bit of a safe state. That was a horrible phrase, but she was suffering and her son was bringing her food parcels. She told me, she was wearing a 199 Oxfam dress, or someone’s bringing her food parcels each week and a half, pretty dilapidated, and she got a call while I was there, from someone chasing her for money. Fast forward six months. I went to see her just before Christmas, and she was wearing a nice outfit. She now treats herself to Marks and Spencers once a week her son doesn’t bring food parcels. The property has had some improvements and she no longer gets phone calls from people. Because she took out equity release, that is it’s mental health has improved as well, that is a kind of rags to riches story for me because it’s real. And she blesses her. She was recorded by the local paper who got hold of the story and she gave a one-minute explanation of what had happened and it was super Android equity release council saw this and said we want to use that Stuart, it’s, it’s a great story as to how to release can help people in the right situation. So you have to cancel since then. I’ve opened up this to equity release advisors. So if you are an extreme supervisor and produce some good video footage or a good blog, they couldn’t have it on that site. So yeah, a good little tip there.

Alex: Lovely, brilliant. Perfect. So I want to find out the kind of like because you were we’ve been talking off the air, we were kind of mentioning your sort of retail background, and then you’ve done you were sort of your last sort of employee job was with Santander. Is that right?

Stuart: Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. Yeah. I spent seven years straight from uni with deponents. And loved it there. Yeah. through the various management roles. You know that a lot about people and service, then, yeah, just happened to get into banking and was doing branch management and mortgage supervisor roles, regional mortgage manager roles. And, and then actually, I thought I could do this and I could do it as a business and there are so many marketing things that I want to do that a big corporation looks at and goes, it’s not really the brand is not really what we want to do. It’s not really where we want to go and I thought, well, actually, a good friend of mine owned financial investment companies. Short financial planning. And I said to him, Look, you don’t have any mortgages. And I know you don’t want to do mortgages, how about I have a room in your lovely offices, and I start a mortgage company, you helped me by being my supervisor. And then we came from there. And that was, what, two and a half years ago. And last year, it changed and we wanted to rebrand. We felt that we were growing to such a size that we saw the alarm in the background. Really, we thought, yeah, it’s time to go out on our own. I bought his shares off him. Then we rebranded the company in January last year, and have a look back we went directly authorized and the big thing has been all the marketing we do all the branding we do is up to us. We’ve got no one saying oh, no, that’s not what we want to do. That’s not how we want to do it. We would play in our own funnel. And, and that’s really, really how we want to do things. So, yeah, as a great step for me. And as I look back on it, we’re sort of done 10 years before. So yeah.

Alex: Was it scary?

Stuart: Hell yeah. Yeah. Because you go from a decent salary to knowing money is coming in. And I know, a lot of advisors out there. I’ve done similar and it is scary. My wife had to work a lot of hours to pay the bills, and what it’s like there’s a pipeline for business and it takes two-three months to come in. So yeah, the early days were scary. But then we grew as having a reputation. But we started off as a mortgage company, Alex, residential is only and we started getting more and more equity released inquiries, and I’ve done the exams. And I thought I love this. I love how life-changing equity releases. And it’s a booming business. And it’s a niche. So all of those things made me think, actually that’s the direction I want the business to go.

Alex: Yeah, fantastic. And what’s the kind of the plans for the future then are you kind of thinking about this? I’m happy to sort of, as far as we are or want more advisors or you know, want to go national or want to keep it local? what’s kind of in your Have you thought about it? Because we’re sort of about a year over sort of Christmas. I was thinking about the next year, what you know, future and things like that.

Stuart: Yeah, very much. So I think, probably about six months ago. I thought, right. Okay. So, and you notice like you get anyone gets to a stage with a business that actually this business takes over nicely. I do the things that I want, I can pick the kids up, I can drop them at school. I don’t have to work weekends but don’t want to or we can go to the next level. I think because I’ve started collaborating with a lot of businesses around the country. We’ve got some good institutions in London, Oxford, Bournemouth, Basingstoke, new Bri, actually, we want to expand the business. I want to be out there more and meeting new introduces. So we’ve got two new advisors who actually are just going through their CMPA now. They’ve got a week away in Bristol next week doing what the week after, and then they’ve got two months gap, and then they’ve got another week in Southampton. I think the second one is.

Alex: Okay.

Stuart: So yeah, we’ll have three of us advisors, recruiting additional admin, but we want to grow organically. So one of the advisors has been our office manager, so that’s Sammy, and other ones my wife, so it’s still keeping it a very close-knit family business. Because, as I’m sure everyone out there knows, recruitment is really difficult. Getting the right person that fits in your ethos in your model in your business, given the service that you give is very difficult. Whether we go that way in the future, I don’t know. But it’s interesting because I’ve just been working on this in the last couple of weeks. What do we want the business to represent in 2020? Well, we want to continue the education we’re doing around equity release. We want to continue the collaboration we’re doing with Well, we’ve got solicitors, we’ve got accountants, we’ve got mortgage brokers, we’ve even got equity release advisers who don’t really like doing it to lease sending us business and with commission sharing with them. Because you know, if you’ve got a mortgage business and your equity release qualified, but you don’t do many equity releases, it’s difficult to actually sit down with Brian, and go, these are your options because you’re not up to speed with it. It’s fast-moving, so yeah, we’re working with groups like that. And that’s what I want my role to be going forward. But last year, our best things we did were the things where we went to events, we ran events with our introduces with our partners. And I’ll give a couple of examples. So far this year, we’ve got fine dining experience. We’ve got a gin tasting event, and we’re going to horse racing, we’re going to eat now but races and then they help for our partners and are introduced as where we say, thank you. We say thank you for introducing that business to us last year. And don’t forget us this year. Because for us, having fun at work is really important. You know, in the past, I’ve had mental health issues and I’ve struggled getting up. So the balance of business is really important to me. So yeah that’s what 2020 looks like.

Alex: fantastically you have me at gin tasting I am I’m a huge draw to know what my may want to know my knees or regulation is.

Stuart: Come on.

Alex: Find a gene that I like more than sip Smith.

Stuart: What’s it called?

Alex: Sip Smith

Stuart: I’m actually writing this down what flavour?

Alex: Well it’s like a London dry gin. There’s nothing fancy about it.

Stuart: Yeah.

Alex: Every gin that I try.

Alex: Yeah.

Stuart: It’s like it’s good, but it’s not quite. So my solution is to find a gene that I like better than sip Smith.

Alex: Oh, you have to try and then do a lemon drizzle lemonade just have the normal the green one. It’s got a swan on it. I’m on like, it’s one of the gin is on my things like I’m I think I’m known for having beard glasses. Loving and drinking gin is like the key things

Stuart: So I’ve just written down green with swan. So.

Alex: Yeah, I’m after that. Well, if you love Sip Man, then you’d have enjoyed the research that I was doing last week of places in Devon, that have good gin events. And one of them and I’m not making this up, we’ve got the National Marine Aquarium in clover.

Alex: Right.

Stuart: They got an event coming up in a few Saturdays time called Gins with Finn. I’m honestly not making that up. They somehow have managed to get the National Marine Aquarium and the gym company together, and they didn’t know what to call it. So it’s an evening event where they’ve got a company with several different gyms and obviously the sharks and the various animals they’ve got in the tanks are the fins. So yeah, you might have to come up with four gins with fins, Alex.

Alex: Well, the other thing I love is a good pun. I absolutely love it. So
that sounds like it. My event well it’s a full house.

Stuart: Yeah.

Alex: Oh, my so I’m gonna touch for a second I’m not gonna pass away this year but my funeral should be called gin’s event.

Stuart: Yeah. People will be pleased to hear we’ve actually decided against that one as Baba has 143 different gins and now teaches you how to make them and part of the event is you get your first three as part of the deal. So yeah, I think we’ve got. I think 12 of our introducers and partners come into that one. So yeah, it’s all part of it. It’s yeah, enjoy business, enjoy collaborating and let’s make up days fun, I think is the key.

Alex: Absolutely. Well, we’ve got a I was just looking at my podcast schedule and there was a guy we recorded with Adam King who, so when yours goes live, his would have already been on the thing he talks about is partnerships. That is massive for him so yeah it just makes sense doesn’t it getting those right partnerships where it’s kind of a win-win for you and for them even like you say people that are qualified in an equity release but do it as an add on?

Stuart: Yeah, absolutely.

Alex: Getting with the right people and yeah, and the thing coming like bringing it back to the video that is building rapport but it’s meeting people in person builds rapport more than ever. Giving them free Jin builds a lot more report is all about for me like relationships are like having a good life. I just think I like doing business with people that I like.

Stuart: Yeah.

Alex: So and then doing like videos is getting to know them a little bit first, but then that’s why we do our events in peace where I can meet a lot of people that listen to the podcast and things like that, and then that builds our relationship. Even more. And that’s just the same across any business especially I think if you’re giving financial advice.

Stuart: It is a nail on the head, I think. Yeah, the videos when we started them in June and then through July and August, we released one a week of a series of educational ones and the ones we just started releasing all the why, as a sister, accountant, mortgage broker, etc. Should you work with us? So yeah, the second one will come out this week, and then we’re doing them weekly. But the last set of videos, actually, yeah, you’ve just made me think of a guy contacted me on LinkedIn and said, I want to collaborate with you. You know, you could really do a lot of equity release. You see a lot of clients. I haven’t got the confidence to do it at the moment. So yeah, can you see my client will like I’m sending them completed on Monday, the client completed on Monday and I’m sending him a check for just over 6,000 pounds this week, but actually check is so 1980s However I send him the funds as soon as I received them. So yeah, that the collaboration thing can be lucrative and he hasn’t done any of the work or taken any of the risks on that, other than he has a good relationship with the client who now has helped her three daughters out one was struggling with our business one was struggling to pay a mortgage. And the third one was just delighted that her two sisters were struggling. Now she wasn’t obvious but the other way we’ll be fair to divide the money equally three ways. So the third child got the same as the two others who really needed it. So yeah, it’s a good story about how videos can lead to increased collaboration and how that can help a business because how does that guy who sent the client to me know how does his client feel about him now that we’ve helped her solve a problem. Exactly.

Stuart: Exactly. Thank you so much for introducing me to Stuart. Exactly. It’s brilliant. It is like it is a win-win. And so yeah, no, I think we spend a lot of time naturally in our businesses thinking I want to find new business myself, and when I’m on a market myself, just to get new business, but actually marketing to get collaborators and partnerships as well is, you know, coming massively.

Stuart: Yeah, yeah. And it’s something that I cottoned on to later on last year because any marketing you do for clients is actually hard work. And it needs to be very consistent. You need to do a lot of it. And finding the right niche is really tricky. Whether that is you know, because obviously, my niche is, well, probably age 65 to 75 owns my own property. But has a need for a lump sum or income, whether that be to improve their lives, whether it be to invite them, improve their family’s lives, whether that be to reduce their inheritance tax liability, and they’re perhaps not easy niches to find in a marketing campaign. But when you’re collaborating with people who, you know will write as, as an example, whether they’re a solicitor or just a will writer firm, one of the questions they ask someone when they’re writing Well, do you own your own property? Oh, yes. And we’re writers that say to me that the phrase we hear most is where asset rich but cash poor. And, you know, I know someone who may be able to help you with that. Let me introduce you to Stuart. And he can talk to you about being asset rich and a little bit less cash poor. So yeah, it’s those collaborations and when someone finds a client for you, the relationship is virtually almost there.

Alex: Yeah, exactly.

Stuart: Whereas when you find the client, you have to build the relationship. So yeah, the collaboration pieces are where the future is Alex? It really is. That’s a huge part of our business for 2020. And I would suggest for people out there, it should be part of this.

Alex: You’ve been dropping value bombs all the way through this Stuart. Exactly. We’ve needed for 40 minutes. I can’t believe it.

Stuart: Wow.

Alex: This is what I love. So the podcast, but amazing is nearly when it will be a year old by the time we published this.

Stuart: Okay.

Alex: We would have only had this conversation if I had started it. And what I love about talking to advisors is that I learn more from your perspective as well. But yes, you know, we only generally only do the marketing stuff we don’t deal with the end consumer. So for me, I get loads of different ideas from, from having people like yourself on. So I’ve really enjoyed chatting with you. I love your enthusiasm for everything. It’s really refreshing. Is there anything we haven’t talked about? That could help anyone listening? Do you think?

Stuart: Yeah, the only thing that I think that I was thinking about? Obviously you, you invited me to this last week and I’m thinking about well if I was listening to a podcast, what would I want to hear that we focused a lot on video and I think the video is, is kind of the symbol of what we as advisors need to do. And what I mean by that is, the video was try something outside of your box, or something out of your comfort zone. Well, in the last six months, I’ve been trying things out of my comfort zone, and things like contacting that journalist in the Daily Mail, who’s done an article about your industry and saying really interested in your article? A couple of things that disagree with that data? How about you ask me for a comment next time. I’m going to the local press and saying, Okay, what do your readers know about equity release? What do they know about investments? Whatever your niche is, what do they know? They will try to get you to do an advertorial and pay for it. But yeah, maybe that’s the right thing for you to do. That morial is how I’ve grown my business in Plymouth. I think my advertorial now a lot of the local newspapers are online as well. And one of the 2400 videos that I referenced earlier on that got over 6000 hits from people online. So yeah, it’s trying things that are a little bit different, be open to ideas. The last one I’ll say is next Saturday, I think it’s the 25th we’ve got an advertorial appearing in The National paper in the times and national paper, and I would never have considered going national, even a year ago. But the company phoned me up. And obviously, it’s a selling space advertising marketing company to say, you know, we’ve got a quarter-page advertorial. It’s 8000 pounds. Okay, can I have two? No, no, no way. As you know, I’m a small business. There’s no way we can afford anything like that. But I’m interested in the concept, talk to me about it. And he sent me the article. I hadn’t looked at it. And then I said, 8000 ridiculous. And you had three and a half thousand. I said, Wow, there’s a discount for you. And I said I’m really interested, when’s the deadline? And he told me when the deadline was and I said, Well, I need to have a think about it. I need to have a chat with the directors on their new director. I need to have a think about it. And he came back to me: The date for deadlines ledger What are your thoughts? I said I want to do that. But what’s your very best price? 1500 pounds we’re going to 1.2 million homes I’m really scared now Alex. NET today because we were just trying things a little bit out of the box. We’re prepared to negotiate, we want to build relationships. He wants us to advertise in the future. And I think Yeah, what’s a 8,000, 1500 pound discount that’s a pretty good discount so if you’re out there and dealing with agencies and papers, kids sticking to your guns negotiate to be a bit cheeky and wow, you can find yourself in positions you possibly think it would be.

Alex: That’s fantastic, or you will have to let me know how that goes on LinkedIn because I will. I’ll add it to the outro of because it will be by the time we get this published so that all you’ll kind of know what’s happened with our

Stuart: Yes, yeah.

Alex: We’ll do it with a bit of time travelling. Stuart this has blown me away genuinely, the amount of value you’ve given. I’m really excited to get this live and share it with everyone. And it’s been great to hear what 2019 has been viewed and I’m really excited to like, I don’t want to wish my time away but I’m really excited to see where you are this time next year.

Alex: Yeah, no it’s gonna be exciting in May and yeah, I really appreciate you. You asked me to come on this because the value bombs thing I’ve never even heard of. But yeah, I like coming up with new ways of doing things. And I really enjoy sharing those ideas. Because, you know, we know active release advisors in this country is my enemy or my competition. The enemy in the competition is people who are saying that equity release isn’t right for people and by us why it’s right for people and as educated people, we will you know, what is that lovely phrase? A rising tide lifts all ships. And that is what we’re trying to do here.

Alex: Fantastic. Love it. Love it so much. So awesome way to end this, Stuart. I really appreciate your time. Let’s definitely do this again next year if not in kind of six months.

Stuart: Great.

Alex: All right, Stuart. Thanks again.

Stuart: Yeah, all right. Thanks again, mate.

Alex: There we have it. That was my chat with Stuart, an absolutely great guy. He’s the first equity release advisor to be featured on my new podcast, the equity release podcast, which will be out now as well. It’s kind of out I’m recording this on the week of it launching. So by the time this is live, it will definitely be out. So check that out if you haven’t already. And I will see you next time. And in fact, I’m recording this a bit early. And I’m a little bit worried about the outbreak of the coronavirus kind of outbreak affecting a lot of events. So as I record this now, our event is going ahead. And this should be published on the 23rd a couple of days before our event. So hopefully fingers crossed touchwood I’ll see you in a couple of days if you come in. If, if it’s not happening, and I haven’t had the chance to re-edit this podcast episode, that’s a bit confusing but hopefully I will be seeing you in a couple of days. See you there.

074 – Catching up with Jodie Stevenson

074 - Catching up with Jodie Stevenson
074 - Catching up with Jodie Stevenson

About this episode

Hello, and welcome back to the lead generation for financial services podcast. This week we have got an old friend, Jodie Stevenson. Almost a year ago when we had our first podcast interview and that went to be the number one downloaded episode of last year.

Jodie is like all other finance brokers, but even though she just had a baby but still continues to supply leads to her clients. Right now she is with B2B Finance which is providing her with leads and she’s also doing her own Google AdWords. These help her produce 2 different types of leads with different conversion rates.

For every enquiry, she gets the leads, CRM, check for notifications and will schedule a chat with her client. And to make sure that she’s on top of everything she uses a blank sheet of paper and knows exactly the template and just writes everything and gets it organized. She does that for every client until she runs out of paper.

Recently she bought a notepad by Rocket Book. It is reusable, can automatically scan, upload to dropbox, digitally file, and then wipe clean and use again. And again.

And if you happen to look for something like a file created 6 months ago, Rocket Book can easily find it for you and locates it in your dropbox file.

Cost is $34.99. They’ve done microwavable one as well where you write in it and put it in the microwave and it will erase everything. It’s a huge impact environmentally and it helps save a lot of waste.

Transcription:

Alex: Hello there, welcome back. And we’ve got an old friend with us. This week, we’re catching up with Jodie Stevenson and it was pretty much a year to the date that we had our first podcast interview. And it went on to be the number one downloaded episode of last year, and of all time, so people talk about her a lot, actually, when they’ve, I think it’s one of the kind of the earlier episodes that people sort of pick up on because it’s one of the first mortgage brokers that we interviewed, and they’ve come on to become the most popular episodes. So I really enjoyed catching up with Jodie. So let’s dive straight in. Hello, and welcome back to the lead generation for financial services podcast and I can’t quite believe it’s been a whole year since we last caught up with the one and only Jodie Stevenson. How’s it going?

Jodie: Thank God it’s one and only. I can hear my mom saying that, thank God.

Alex: We were just saying, how was it? You were like, no, it’s nobody You know, it could have been a year but it has.

Jodie: But then we were talking about things like, what things have had like you’re like, a quarter of a person that you were then you were last year.

Alex: We haven’t got a video either away. But yeah.

Jodie: Now you’re super skinny. Don’t worry, though. I’m still fat and consistent for the world. got consistent and but yeah, no, it’s, that’s great. There’s actually been a lot of things that have really happened. So if you actually like, pile up the achievements that both of us have had in the last year. Actually, that makes sense. It’s probably like a decade’s worth of achievement. So yeah.

Alex: It’s funny, isn’t it? Because you like them day by day, week or week, month or month thing you know, I haven’t really done a lot. I’ve really improved a lot if anyone needs to literally think about doing a 360 and see Oh, this time last year I was doing this, you know, what.

Jodie: Yeah, exactly. Well, I mean, I taught a human to walk this year, which is, technically he taught himself. I’m taking the credit. And if he was walking funny, I wouldn’t be taking any other credit for it. But like, yeah, like he’s actually like, he’s doing the real things. Like he’s really doing things this year. Like he’s, he’s learning words. And oddly, he’s learned the word jacket. It’s one of his jackets, he calls me Jodie instead of mom, which is awesome. Yeah, so shouts Daddy, and Jodie, I’m like, thank you very much.

Alex: Excellent, excellent show you love that. Because I remember obviously we had the
Wow, it’s just a sad thing. Obviously, we had the dogs barking.

Jodie: Oh yeah, Thrasher and Baker. Oh yeah, yeah. Oh, that happened in a bowl we got em. So they went to live with another Basset and Mum, basically, because we were part of a really good dog network. And so they went to live with this lady who’s got like four others and they are just they are so happy. I don’t even think the fact they’re like maybe because yeah, they live on a farm now and there are loads of dogs there and they absolutely love it. And so yeah, that was a yeah, that was sad but i think i think we could be kind of at the point with you could hear how chaotic it was in the background. They were just like, they were just like, let’s go for a walk. Let’s go here and I was like no. And so yeah,

Alex: It is. Yeah, having a child, a human is a lot I wouldn’t have been able to do with pets.

Jodie: Yeah, but pets that I had created my own problem with the pets because it was too small of a house, too big of dogs, and not enough boundaries between anyone you know, the dog slept in bed with me and it just wasn’t, you know, it was a recipe for disaster. And luckily they’ve gone somewhere where they are even further mollycoddled than they were with me. So they’re there, they’re even better off now. I think that’s really it’s a really big lesson as an adult when you make a decision that’s going to hurt you and only hurt you, but it’s going to help someone else. So the dogs were going to be better off. I was going to be sad. And I had to make that decision and be like, Okay, well, I guess I’ll just be sad then because they’re gonna be happier. Real adult learning. So yeah, it was super sad like I was gutted about it, but I think it was the right thing for them.

Alex: I know, absolutely. Do you know what I was just looking up while you’re telling me that, so I thought I better just check because I knew yours was a very popular sewed for a while it was the second most downloaded? But you want to know something quite exciting that it was the number one downloaded episode of all time.

Jodie: Really? That’s amazing. That’s awesome. Yeah, you know, it’s my dulcet tones. It’s my lovely calming accent that ASMR of mortgage advisers.

Alex: Say well, I would like to say part of the credit of doing something super exciting with the title of like a mortgage broker generating their own leads doing blah, blah, blah, blah. So I’d like to take a little bit of credit for that.

Jodie: That’s okay. You can.

Alex: I’ll take 30% of the credit.

Jodie: Yeah.

Alex: That’s the number one so you’d be there. So David Thompson. So Gary was seventh, and then you don’t talk to a second, Me and Tom doing an episode were third. We should have been first you know, that’s an absolute disgrace. You got ash, Ash ball and fourth. So what was interesting actually the top, the top five are not if you take out me and Tom, the top five are all brokers.

Jodie: Okay, cool.

Alex: So now, you know we’ve had a lot of marketing experts on dishing out marketing advice. One thing I’ve learned over this year is that actually getting people like yourself and hearing your stories is what people are interested in.

Jodie: Yeah, what do you know what though it’s something that I found throughout my life and we had at the bank, we have people who would come and work for us. And you were like, university graduates and they’d come in on a graduate course or something, they’d come straight into management. And the rest of the bank was just like, nope, don’t I don’t want to know anything this person’s got to say because you haven’t lived this life. You haven’t come from the ground up. And this, you know, it puts there’s a lot in it. There really is I can sit there and say, Look, I know how to market for mortgage advisers because I am a mortgage advisor.

Alex: Yeah.

Jodie: I’m marking all myself. And this works rather than someone you know, just coming in and saying, This is what and we could probably be doing exactly the same thing.

Alex: Yeah., no, absolutely, absolutely. I think it’s, it’s being it’s easy to put someone to be like, um, you know, Jodie is a broker she’s doing that what you know, why can’t I and then maybe they think if there’s someone who’s not worked in it, and it’s easy for them? Yeah. It’s just easier to make a connection with people that are like you. So. Yeah, that’s awesome. And then you had you, as supposed you are the only one as well that we got on that was doing Google Ads themselves. I don’t think I spoke to any of the brokers that have been doing Google Ads themselves so are you still on your radar? He’s still doing that. Is that anything else overtaking it, or Is that still the number one.

Jodie: Now, I mean, I obviously had a baby. So there was a period of time where I wound it down. And I’ve continued to supply leads. So I still had a handful of loyal clients who just kind of kept buying from me over that period, but I stopped taking any of my leads. And so for about six months, I kind of just backed off from it, and then came back in sort of the back end of last year, I think a little one’s gone to nursery now. So yeah, I’m kind of back in it now. And, and it’s, it’s a blend again. So obviously the network that I’m with b2b, they provide me with leads. And, and I also have my Google AdWords, which, and they’re just two very different types of leads. And they all have different conversion rates, and they all work but I don’t think you should ever turn a lead source away and you know, if If you can, as long as you are meticulously recording how many times you did everything to in that lead, you know, did I pick the phone up and dial them? How many times did I literally put my hand to my phone? And because then you can figure out how much putting your hand on a phone makes you might be 74 P. But, we can take it right back to that.

Alex: Absolutely. I think I saw there was someone a broker showing me their screen and it was like one of their self-employed brokers had only logged two calls. They were saying that this I’ve not been able to get out as person but it was like two calls a week apart both before 5 pm. And it was like they were I can’t remember how long after it was the lead initially dropped. But it was they were reporting it but not doing enough. And I think there’s a case of people not being as meticulous as you are with that. I’m not chasing it enough.

Jodie: Wow. I would as always, I’m going to be going against the grain here. No, I don’t have the needs. I didn’t do it, man, I don’t do it. Look, if you want a mortgage, I’m going to touch. Here’s my number. I if they put in an inquiry, I mean I would the b2b, b2b have their own structure, which is you know that you make an X number of calls, and we have a system that sends them texts, etc. And those ones, you know, that’s, that’s James’s method, and I use that. But for my own needs I when the lead lands, I try within 10 minutes and firing them it’s straight off the bat. So I go straight in and I call him because speed stones and it always will and a lot of the times they answer the phone and go oh, oh, didn’t expect you to ring me that fast. And I’m like, exactly. I give them a ring straight away. And the chances are they are still sat by the computer. And so they get that one call and then and then I’m never in the zone. And then if they don’t answer, I send them a text and I say, Hey, it’s me from this company. I’m bringing about your mortgage when good, that’s all I do. That’s it. I can’t find them again. Nope, I bring them at the moment and then I send them a text and that’s it.

Alex: Do you mind sharing what percentage of contact right there is like what percentage of like, no contact is that you know.

Jodie: my contact rate is I have this down the other day I’ve actually I’m mentoring someone at the moment. So I’m more in my own KPIs than I ever have.

Alex: While you’re looking at apps are gonna it’s like two very different things going on because If you are buying leads or if you’re marketing in a way that you’re not building any rapport you’ve you’ve only got that quick window because they’ll forget about you. But if you’re marketing and people know you quite well and they’ve bought into already then you can wait. So I don’t think everyone I always think older minute coders are always like you say within 10 minutes.

Jodie: Oh, I love that.

Alex: Yeah, well little phrase for you.

Jodie: Yeah

Alex: While you’re looking at apps are gonna it’s like two very different things going on because If you are buying leads or if you’re marketing in a way that you’re not building any rapport you’ve you’ve only got that quick window because they’ll forget about you. But if you’re marketing and people know you quite well and they’ve bought into already then you can wait. So I don’t think everyone I always think minute older minute coders are always like you say within 10 minutes so I love that. Well, little phrase for you. Yeah. It because it literally is because they’ll because if they because there’s a lot of things that are important to people at that moment, like mortgages, especially protection that is important at the minute and then once the laptop gets close, I will it was important 10 minutes ago it’s not important now because this is happening. So you miss if you miss that window, I think you’re missing out. A big one. But it just depends on a case by a case like how well are you have you? Like, do people know you for that one thing and they’ve already decided that only gonna deal with you.

Jodie: No, my leads have no idea who I am mainly, my leads are very much advertised on an in a cold no company we are a company, we can find you the things you would like as your details to have a call and, and so yeah, just give them a ring or give them a quick call. And then I’ll send them a text and send them an email. So send them a text and an email. And if they don’t come back to me, you didn’t want it that much.

Alex: Yeah, I wonder though, I’d be so interested to see the numbers like because you’re you’ve got personality, definitely. If people got to know you a little bit before

Jodie: I leave a voicemail, I do leave a voicemail. So maybe that’s why I get a lot of callbacks and I get a lot of texts back.

Alex: And I think people prefer to communicate in the text.

Jodie: 100% of the day. I do.

Alex: Yeah, I think my big thing for us this year is to give the end-user the person that wants the mortgage, give them as wide of options as possible to communicate. And not just say, it’s only a callback, you have to have a goal, but it’s like, how do you prefer to us to get back to that email? Whatsapp? Facebook Messenger?

Jodie: Yeah.

Alex: Text, phone, and then let them just I think there’s a lot of leads being missed, because people are going through and there, and there, yeah, I need a mortgage or I need advice. I’ve got this situation, and then the only they’ll fill all the details out, and the only option is a callback and they’ll sort of agree to it and then they’ll think but whereas if it’s something like WhatsApp, then they don’t have to set that timeout to have a call because no one wants to be sold to and the broker can go away if they’ve done a fact find on the website. If you’ve collected all that information, why maybe go back to them with something and then build-up to the call.

Alex: Yeah, exactly. I something like I think it’s a month ago. And I needed to do something with my energy supplier. And I logged in and there was like to write live chat or like live chat, but I always forget it’s open. You know, when you open it, and then you just walk off, just forget you have live chat open.

Jodie: I’m so confident. I’m terrible with it. So, it clicks on this live chat thing. And it was like, Oh, do you want to just Whatsapp? I was like, Oh, yeah. So Whatsapp. And it just opened a WhatsApp chat with my provider. And then they just kind of got back to me throughout the day.

Alex: Yeah. So as a broker, like whether you’ve got advisors working for you or not, and some people don’t want to give them Oh, by the way, you can get a prepaid SIM and you can have WhatsApp away. So you can have all your WhatsApp communications open on a browser window to the on as you and it’s so much more organized than email as well when I’m doing a whole sort of project on facilitating WhatsApp Web for clients. We’ve been looking at WhatsApp chatbot as well, which is not as good as the Facebook Messenger stuff. But again, if people want to do it, we’re on it because if we can get as much info on if someone and then the only thing is one, someone said their network won’t allow WhatsApp communication despite it being the safest. And I could say I covered which network it was where they were like they ban any communication whatsoever knowing that WhatsApp is more secure than email. That’s bonkers. But either way Yeah, that’s definitely on our mind because I think a lot of people just don’t want to have a phone call.

Alex: See, very I’m sort of taking over this episode. So what so what else? So are you doing more of the commercial stuff on your ads before? Exactly it was commercial mortgages pretty much that you were doing last year my right

Jodie: Yeah, yup. So my advert saw more commercials but I do get a lot of isolettes through it as well. And yeah, but mostly it’s battleaxe for so it’s a limited company and

Alex: That does seem to be a very popular minute obviously with all the sort of tax changes and stuff. Yeah. How are you finding it like demand this from this time last year to now the B-word is kind of semi sorted is that affected anything or our market like?

Jodie: I would say that pre-Christmas which normally December is my salon and the month where I don’t do anything, and January is just like I’m continuing to not do much. Outrageous this December was, I mean, right up until Christmas Eve I was still dealing with clients and taking and taking upset on Christmas Eve. Crazy.

Alex: We saw one on Christmas Day.

Jodie: No..

Alex: One every Christmas Day, there’s always one.

Jodie: I don’t even think I’ll pick my phone up on Christmas day it’s just yeah

Alex: Yeah everyone’s different so people get bored and they’re like but yeah I mean I was cooking on Christmas Day literally in a second but yeah that that did happen.

Jodie: yeah now I’ve been really busy and really really busy and very much and that’s kind of what my year is about this year is understanding how to manage the famine and the feast know get tons of leads in and when you’re very quiet and then you know talking to me building it all up and then they kind of all slowly come back in and then you end up with like if anything you end up with too many inquiries because then you’ve gone too many people coming back and it’s kind of I’m trying to figure out what that nice even let’s take this many leads a day constantly rather than taking you to know 40 leads a day for two weeks, nothing for another three weeks. So that’s what my plan is this year is to find my sweet spot.

Alex: of literally the number of leads per week per day.

Jodie: Yeah, yeah.

Alex: And what was taking the most time for you, when you’re sort of dealing with inquiries? Where could it like, Is it like,

Jodie: what’s that? Sorry, packaging cases? And okay, so that’s always the most time-consuming part. And in any mortgage, getting the leads is fine, cuz everything’s automatic. And it’s also CRM, and it’s perfect. And the notification comes through on my phone, I click a button and get it’s great. And, but then once and I have a chat with a client, and that’s fine, and I don’t. Do you follow me on Instagram?

Alex: Yeah.

Jodie: And did you see the space paper that I got delivered yesterday?

Alex: Oh, God doesn’t know if I’ve been on the last couple of days.

Jodie: So whenever I get an inquiry, I have a blank sheet of paper. And I know exactly the template of my fact find a blank sheet of paper and I just write, write all and it’s all organized, you know, left side for Mr Right side to miss it, and it kind of all ends up looking like a fact find. And so I do that sheet of paper for every client, and then I write on that until really, I’ve run out of paper and it becomes a client file. And then I take paper, clip it in, and then they become a file. And yeah, well, that is pretty, you can imagine I’ve got like 60 notebooks piled up next, which is crazy. And so I’ve actually bought a notepad by rocket book. And it’s a reusable notepad.

Alex: What.

Jodie: Yeah, so you write in it. And then you get your phone, you get the rocket dog app, you scan it over, and it uploads it into Dropbox into a file, wherever you can put file names on it, and everything, and then just wipe the page clean and start again.

Alex: Oh my God.

Jodie: It’s like actual paper and so yeah, that I’m hoping that’s gonna save me a bunch of time because now it’s got handwriting detection as well. So all my notes now get uploaded into a file. So when a client rings me back in six months time and says hey you know Mr Donovan, I can just open my rocket dog file and go Donovan and it will find that note pad that page of my notepad and go that’s that client it might just say Donovan, ah avoid you know, but it will be and that’ll be on the new anywhere I am. I can just click it’ll be in my Dropbox and I can just search for that name anywhere I don’t need my notepads anymore. And because it will all be on this. This Dropbox so I think

Alex: Then 34.99 I’m just on the road getting a rocket book. Why not? Not mega expensive.

Jodie: Yeah, and the efforts are hilarious. I mean, you’ll really enjoy him. It’s just two guys in there like, they’re just having a blast making these books clearly they’ve done a microwavable one as well where you write in it and then put it in the microwave, and it just erases everything. And but that has a shelf life. And, and something I’m really conscious of at the minute is the impact that I’m having, you know, environmentally. There’s a lot of paper in my job. So I’m kind of wherever I can, I’m avoiding a paper. Because everything else in my life pretty much I know I doesn’t really have minimal impact with most of the things I use are usable things in most of my life but then in this just reams and reams of paper that I’m printing, I feel terrible.

Alex: It’s literally my desk at the minute. I’ve got these A3 papers where we spent sort of between Christmas and New Year like coming up with different ideas days for campaigns and what can be doing better and I’ve literally got a flood of these A3 bits of paper that I could have done in this. If they do an A3 version. I’m all over, I might get the small one anyway because I do use it like my notebooks.

Jodie: What size is a4? So A3 is quite bigger than A4

Alex: Yeah.

Jodie: I think A4 is probably the biggest that they do but you could open both pages because it’s 32 pages.

Alex: Yeah

Jodie: Maybe you could open both and just have it on there but you know if you do it small and then just blow it up.

Alex: Yeah, well, it’s my birthday coming up and the misses were like, what can I want I can kind of get you sort of you never want anything and anything you want you but I could just send you this thing.

Jodie: Do it because honestly, I was saying that is such a good present for people. And it’s the last one is the one I got and it when it gets delivered. It looks like a bag of space food because it comes in the old space bag. I feel very modern, very.

Alex: Yeah. I love it with these things I always get annoyed that I didn’t invent it myself.

Jodie: Yeah, my dad, my dad has invented everything before anyone else did. And, every time a product comes out, he’ll remind me of the conversation we’ve had four years ago where he invented that and he’s right, you know, we have and I say, well, maybe it should actually do one of those.

Alex: Yeah. Oh well, I used to work at an agency and this guy called Kazu came like a freelance designer and he just comes in, he sort of lives in our office. We used to work together and our old boss used to say that he invented Facebook before Facebook Like all the time.

Jodie: Oh, I bet he did

Alex: It’s in his head, but then never did the difference. Zuckerberg did something about it. That’s the…

Jodie: I think I invented iPhones and I definitely think I did. I had all the passion for an iPhone, in my mind.

Alex: Yeah.

Jodie: But it just was the translation that I just, you know, probably by the time they came, you know, when I’m thinking of and they were probably 10 years in development anyway.

Alex: Yeah, exactly.

Jodie: So though they’ll be imprinted in our fingers soon.

Alex: Really? Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So, other than digital notebooks, what else is new?

Jodie: So yeah, my digital notebook is very new. I’m mentoring somebody.

Alex: I was gonna say you mentioned it earlier. Yeah.

Jodie: I believe she found me on your podcast.

Alex: Well, do you know that happens a lot. This podcast doesn’t cost me a lot of money. It cost me time. I don’t make anything from it. But I seem to have made like other people. Like some really good so there’s like, lots of like, pretty much every guest I’ve had on saying so and got in touch. We’d like to do this. Amazing. That’s great. It’s brilliant that I always find it bonkers that people actually listen. And they still listen. And people actually do stuff out of it. So that is.

Jodie: I probably get one or two messages a month that say, Hey, I heard your podcast episode. And I’d love to have a chat with you about what you do. I’d love to buy some leads off.

Alex: Amazing.

Jodie: Yeah. One or two a month at least.

Alex: Well, I was just looking at when I looked at your episode stats, I was like, Oh, this has had eight downloads in the last week. And I was like, well, that’s like one at one a, obviously, more than one a day and it was over a year old. Least not being advertised. People are picking it out. So yeah, I mean, that is amazing. Amazing to hear. And then I say I didn’t get anything out of it. I mean, we get inquiries all the time. I don’t ask everyone where they come from. But that’s cool. So how’s that mentoring? Say what’s in terms of the minute you mentoring them on, are they on like everything or just marketing? Just Google Or literally the whole, the whole.

Jodie: So initially it was a marketing job really, that she just wanted something to learn. And as we kind of got talking, it just kind of organically became, we were both in a really similar position actually in our lives and her kind of wants to be in the same sustainable situation that I’m in where we can have our children and be the mums that we want to be and run a business that we want to run without having to sell Aloe Vera. Or, you know, these ridiculous shapes that people sell or anything like that. It’s just a true Korea and true business.

Alex: Yeah.

Jodie: And which is lovely to see that people look at me and think, you know, that that’s an aspirational and Korea, which is, you know, it’s great. So she approached me and I said, Look, you know, I’d love to expand outwards and as well not just physically but potentially for my business. Well, but yeah, let’s, you know, let’s, let’s do it and let’s just kind of cobble through it together. And so that’s kind of where we’re at. She’s taken a leap of faith on me and I have to leap of faith on her and we’re just trying to figure out how that works. And so that’s where we’re at. I’m kind of guiding her through how I set up myself. And then we would slowly integrate her into her own being our own broker. And eventually, she’s just been doing it a few months now. We’ve had Christmas, so it’s been a little, you know, nonstarter over Christmas, but she’s doing amazing, she’s got 10s of thousands of pounds in the pipeline, which is crazy. And you know, not all of that is going to go anywhere. But you know, even if I think we’ve said like, you know, roughly she probably roughly banks to bank seven grand. And I would say, out of everything that she’s had through, which is just gorgeous in it, you know, take this leap into like a totally new field and then get in a big pipeline like that. And

Alex: What I love about 99% of the brokers 99.99% brokers I know and speak to also just get as much satisfaction out of like, genuinely helping people as well and they and they and they get rewarded for it. It’s like what it’s like, I’m almost jealous of the rewards that you guys get from helping people as well as what you get in return. It feels quite a unique kind of job that it’s kind of a must to be satisfying.

Jodie: Yeah, it really is and do they want and I needed it as well. I really needed it because I started to doubt my own hipe last year and you know, when you have a kid you lose your identity completely for a period of time. And I came back and was like, right i mean obviously I have my group that was on your podcast which is still it still exists but it’s just because I didn’t know how to help these people and you know they were all asking me and I was like I don’t know just how do I do this I’m a parent and how do I do it? How do I do it? And I know me and you know conversations about that and definitely minute old minute cold is, you know, plays on my mind with these people. And so when this really naturally just progressed into something and mentor wise, I was really happy because I was like, Okay, I can do this. And, and I can help and even if all I do is just give her the tools and then send her on her way and

Alex: Yeah.

Jodie: Because it is, I’m growing as a person, whilst I’m helping her grow as a person. And, and it might be that she goes off and does it without, you know without me in the future and that’s, that’s fine. And it’s just something that I think I’ve, I’ve needed to do and it’s a big learning for me as well.

Alex: I think as well as you learn from teaching as well, she always won’t feel giving advice to someone else to do something you sort of like, I find that when we’re trying to I always feel like I’m looking at stuff more. So I’m not trying to help myself, I’m trying to help other people as well. So it gives me that extra edge so we’ve obviously got we’ve got the pressure of clients that pay us and we’ve got we’ve got to deliver for them otherwise we lose them and you know, lose house and family can’t eat and things like that, but also that extra edge of wanting to help other people that what they do well or not And affect me, but it always finds, since doing the podcast and doing videos and things like that, that it gives it I’ve probably pushed myself to learn more to help share that kind of accent.

Jodie: Yeah, exactly, exactly. I mean, I, I would have, I would have said I was very, you know, very efficient at my job. And I knew I knew exactly what to do, but actually, I just knew exactly what to not do. I knew what to avoid. I knew what I knew. And I knew I knew how to avoid the stuff I didn’t know. And with this new, new starter, she’s kind of expanded and been like, Oh, well, I’m looking at loads of stuff over here. And I’m like, Oh, no, I don’t play in that court. But what I have to do now, so I’ve, you know, started doing that as well and funnily and, you know, growth, growth is, it’s up and down and sideways. It’s everywhere because I’ve had a really great opportunity as well as my father in law and my mother in law and Actually, I’ve started on the path to working for me as well. And right, so they’re going to become mortgage brokers and buy their own rights, which is lovely. But also my dad is coming to work for me as well. And he’s had a background like you had a family that had worked in. He’s got some experience in it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Right. Yes. So he was a senior financial adviser for the bank that I worked for. And my sister was an advisor as well. And she’s had a baby and she’s going back to work in January, self-employed as well, which is lovely. And so we’re all kind of doing it self employed. But yeah, my dad’s come in to work with me as well. Which is great because he’s the guy who kind of coached me and made me the person that I am. And now I kind of get to give a little bit back to him, but he loves me and he’s going to help me from above and you No, it’s going to, it’s going to go everywhere. And it’s going to be really nice. And it’s going to build a really nice little company.

Alex: Family literally a family business literally

Jodie: Literally a family business. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, my partner Matt, and he’s always been like a rock in my company anyway. And when I have these, you know, packaging nightmares where I’ve got just, you know, reams and reams and reams of applications that I’ve got to fill in. He’s just incredible. You just get straight on the computer and he’s like, scans him in and, and does it all for me anyway, so I’ve always had him helping me. And even if sometimes it’s just he just goes out with our thoughts. Leave Hello. Yeah.

Alex: Yeah.

Jodie: And so it’s always been great and hands-on, but it’s so nice that we’re getting everyone else is kind of getting involved in it as well. And it’s fantastic. Yes, it’s lovely. It’s quite a nice little family that we’ve got now. Really a family.

Alex: Really Yeah. And I think just going back to what you said about Like growth being up down sideways my business mental talks about competitive with like climbing Everest is like the night before they go to sleep they climb up and then they have to climb back down again to like a climatized so it’s always talking about the growth of that you’re up and then you’ve got sometimes you’ve got to go back down to be able to push forwards again parallel so it’s nobody can build a business with cute like continued growth will kill you.

Jodie: Yeah absolutely. Isn’t linear it’s not you know.

Alex: Yeah it’s a graph, this graph should have these peaks where you drop down and then you that gives you the ability to then push back up again. So yes one thing is you always want like a month I always want growth, growth, growth, but the one thing he thought he taught me about was that it is normal and healthy to have no backs and I’m pushing on from there.

Jodie: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it’s amazing what you can really beat yourself up on mean on AdWords I can, I can have a week where I look at my fingers and you know, they’re costing me three times as much as they did on, you know, the month before and I will really panic. And I’ll go Stop, stop the ads. And you know, it’s just your instinct is to stop at that point but no, no, you need to stop because there’s a reason why they’re coming through at this. You know, it’s because people really really want it or people you know, there’s a lot of competition or whatever, but it always evens out. It always evens out over the course of a year and you always end up at the same cost per click. So there’s a reason it’s an average, you know, you’re gonna have some weeks where it’s half of your normal one that you just can’t look in like that you’ve got to set boundaries and be like, I’m only gonna, I’m only gonna worry about it. If over the course of three months, my average cost is going up and then I’ll worry and

Alex: Yeah.

Jodie: But even then don’t leave it another three months.

Alex: Yeah, exactly. Is that easy? Again, because when we do it like that with Google Ads absolute minefield in terms of like, we’ve got one company where the cost per click can range from like quid to four quid depending on the time of day and when other people are bidding and things like that.

Jodie: Yeah.

Alex: There are so many sorts of and it’s difficult when if there are brokers with a small budget as well, those impacts will be felt bigger than one whether someone’s spending like 50 grand a month compared some of the spending 500 pounds those ups and downs have felt much bigger with the smaller budgets definitely.

Jodie: Absolutely.

Alex: Have you ever kind of looked at the thought about SEO being on page one top of page one for those keywords bidding on.

Jodie: You mean organically?

Alex: Yeah, organically. Yeah. Is it ever like, do you have SEO remorse as in like this time last year, if there was an if you knew what to do, there was a plan in place, and you could have executed it and by now a year later, you could have been position one.

Jodie: I don’t know, I’ve never really, I’ve never really seen the benefit of you know what, I am the person who scrolls past the ads and goes to the organic number one result, but I feel like that’s the same as buying an ad anyway now, because people just strategically do things to make themselves the number one result, but it’s not. It’s not really, you know when you go shopping online, and it organizes things, you know, and you can do it from price low to high or whatever, whatever the default is never price low to high, its price, whatever is gonna make me the company more money. And they do it that way. So it’s, you know, I don’t necessarily believe personally, that the value of being number one, organically has the value that it used to. I think it just means that you’re very good at SEO.

Alex: Oh, yeah.

Jodie: Just means you’re good at getting to number one on Google.

Alex: Yeah, absolutely. What we find with a lot of our clients, the reduction in the cost to acquire a new client if they’re getting free traffic from Google is is is the biggest one the biggest factors in

Jodie: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. In that sense, yes, definitely that it would be a cheaper option. But tt just for me, I feel like I didn’t know that my audience is ready.

Alex: What you’re doing now is work and I don’t want your eye off the ball. So there’s a lot of things in life like, don’t if you’ve got something that is working, that’s profitable unless you’re obviously like, where you were their way or now. You don’t want to change it. Yeah, I was just kind of interesting. If we’re, if because you’re getting those leads from Google, whether that was on your mind.

Jodie: It is nice to know, it would definitely be nice to know. And, and, and I certainly, I certainly would be open to looking at it and seeing But I’m still in the same position that I was in before, which I know is always your favourite thing to hear from me. I don’t need any more leads at the minute. I have to turn the machine off frequently.

Alex: If you if we were to talk this time next year, and you didn’t have to have the machine on at all, and they were all just coming in.

Jodie: Oh, yeah. Yeah. be great.

Alex: Yeah. So that was my I have a question. I should have asked that beginning. But ya know, it’s interesting. And that’s where a lot of we have all kinds of ads running literally, bar, no bar, none. All of them but they were the ones that are getting those. We work on SEO for all of our clients because of getting that free trial. And Google’s great because it’s people are like, well, like we said earlier about catching them within that 10 minutes. They’re in the zone.

Jodie: Yeah.

Alex: Like Facebook, LinkedIn once you’re there when they are in the zone and it’s They haven’t made the decision to go out and look for something. Yes. You’ve got to be even quicker with the social ads to get them But yeah, I think we’re finding Google gives the best quality and if you can get it free so obviously it reduced like the possibilities cray LAUGHING

Jodie: You had a podcast with Joe Mani.

Alex: The thing I haven’t asked because it’s we have your name is coming up on my thing is Joe Mani but Joe Mani is that a self-inflicted?

Jodie: Yeah hundred per cent you know what? funny because it’s difficult to nickname my name because it isn’t really you can’t really other than Steve Oh, yeah, all coffee bit. Oh calling me like, which I don’t like Joe Go. Yeah, exactly. So it has to be something. So after a while, it just became, I just used to put myself on board, you know, couldn’t fit Jody on it. So I’d write j and then we’ll do like $1 sign. So I was. So yeah, it’s definitely a self-made Monica and that does not need to stick. Nobody knew that nickname mom. But just to go back to what you said about LinkedIn, and LinkedIn, such a funny little place at the minute. And I mean, I’ve turned my notifications off because it’s too much, people, I don’t know who in their right mind thinks that anyone is going to read a near eight paragraph-long message from a brand new connection. Either like, Hey, how are you insert name here, comma, I would really like to talk to you about insert profession here. Let me tell you a little bit about what it is that I do. It was 25 paragraphs about it and I’m like Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I just never read it.
Alex: I agreed at the no who’s speaking to a guy the other day. And they’re kind of like an agency that does that can’t that I outreach but in a very different way. And he was like talking about getting them to strike up a conversation like asking a question or something to start a conversation rather than just doing a whole sales blurb is like running up to someone in the street and just shouting about your business for like, 10 minutes.

Jodie: Yeah, exactly. And I way prefer, like, I’ve had a lot of impact on a lot of my favourite messages on LinkedIn, or people who’ve listened to your podcast, and they will message me with something. And, and I’ll, it always makes me laugh. It’ll always be something funny in the message. It’ll be like, Hey, I heard you on the podcast. And then they’ll just say something hilarious. Along the lines, I think because I give a sense of like and look for a laugh. And they’ll always always have a laugh. And even if all we do is just say, uh, you know, I’ll say thank you very much. And I’ll see Say that I mean, uh, you know, I mean a deadly baffle for number one. So please be free to download it 400 times.

Alex: As much as we’ve done it.

Jodie: Yeah, exactly, exactly. I’ll send you all your five pounds in a minute. So we’re at and, but well, you know, we’ll have a laugh and we’ll have fun and that’s what I think that’s what LinkedIn should be is a place to find like-minded business people to do business with. And to Hulu, and not to get too caught up on being everyone’s cup of tea.

Alex: Exactly, that’s Yeah, if you’re vanilla, like the, someone was asking me about, Tony, have you seen Gary Vaynerchuk?

Jodie: Yeah, I love Gary Vaynerchuk.

Alex: Yeah, but he is Marmite, you know. That’s why if he was vanilla and trying to get everyone to like him, he wouldn’t have the following that he has. So

Jodie: Yeah.

Alex: Pretty extreme example, obviously. But yeah. Like being yourself is.

Jodie: Yeah, I’m a marmite well, hundred percent a marmite. And people literally do like me or they do not like me. And it’s and you know what, I used to really struggle with that but now I’m just like, that’s fine. There are plenty more people in the world and I like to be alone. I like to warm people up a bit I am a little bit of a troll by nature and I do like to sort of tickle people a bit, particularly on LinkedIn. And somebody put something at Christmas. I hate the boastful nature of Christmas. And I don’t think people talk about the presence that golfing kids run said. And so I was on LinkedIn at some point. And this guy was like, What do you get the guy who has everything, and I think I responded with haemorrhoid cream. And if you say you’ve got everything, have you got a spare tenner?

Alex: Yeah, brilliant.

Jodie: Yeah. You know, I like to sort of make fun of people a bit but I think Yeah, LinkedIn has got to change to become a bit more. I think you’ve got to be aggressive with who you let in your circle on LinkedIn.

Alex: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I’ve really filtered.

Jodie: Yeah, remove connections, remove connections. Yeah. Are you within a geographical distance of me that we can do business if not remove connection?

Alex: Absolutely. I think it is a great platform and I’m slowly being marmite like I don’t I put a photo on I think was yesterday and I’ve got I got bought two notepads for Christmas one says the Archbishop of Canterbury and the other thought of this as a warning Bantam merchant, proper cringe but I just took a photo and said I’ve got a really important meeting with a top dog Fs company but which notepad I never would have done that before because it’s like, oh, I should be professional or not have a but then I think I’ve made more a double business got more friends out of LinkedIn and connections from being myself and not worrying about not being too professional or worrying about or not worried about anything actually other than just being sad.

Jodie: Just don’t do it. It’s, you’ve got to you’ve just got to be yourself. I mean, you really have to just be yourself. My favourite people in the financial industry are you. I can smell I can sniff out a metalhead in a crowded room. I just know him. I know the people who you know they’ve got like a slipknot tattoo, I just know it. And I like a Rolodex of metal you know metal aficionados who are in the financial industry, and that’s one that they’re my people. So I love those people. And but then also people who, who have a criminally, you know, offensive sense of humour. That’s, that’s Matt der max. People so if I find a particularly funny person who also listens to, you know the same sort of music as me, you know that’s a relationship for us. So if you’re out there and you want to be my BDM please message me on LinkedIn and if you want to talk slipknot and deals let’s do it let’s I’m in the market for it.

Alex: I’m really looking forward to someone opening a message or connection requests or doing some sort of reference or, or something like if you get that please do a screenshot and send.

Jodie: I will put it on a T-shirt. Promise.

Alex: Yeah, brilliant. We have been chatting for 50 of your English minutes Wow. Wow, it was like three.

Jodie: It really does.

Alex: What have we not discussed?

Jodie: I think pretty much it and we’ve done exactly what I’ve been taught not to do there with it. We haven’t done politics or what is it politics and religion not covered? That’s good.

Alex: We could do that next year. Yeah.

Jodie: Okay. Yeah, definitely.

Alex: It’s so good to catch up with you. I can’t believe it’s been a year. It. It’s absolutely bonkers. Yeah. And it’s great that people are still listening to your original one. Still getting in touch with you. I can’t believe I’ve been involved in something that makes that happen. I find that bonkers.

Jodie: It’s not the first situation that’s gone viral for me. And I’m sure it won’t be the last.

Alex: Yeah, what was, go on spill it.

Jodie: I’m not going to give you my medical records. No, I’m joking. And no, I put a few in. I often go viral actually. And I did it. I did a bit of a famous post about mediums A while ago and my disdain for the role of BDM. Right. I’ve always said, I stand by it. I don’t think it’s a role that that is relevant. I don’t think it’s a helpful role. For mortgage advisors when it’s one person I think it’s unfair on the person. I used to hate BDM but now I hate whoever makes a BDM do their job. I hate them. It’s and it’s not sustainable. It’s not sustainable. You just need a call center that deals with those. But yeah, I did them almost like an X factor of BDMs. Once I put up that I don’t like BDMsms and I refuse to use them. I actually completely refuse to use them now. I did have a few people who were like, let me prove you wrong Let me prove you right like so and so and a few of them did. Yeah, pretty much funny Penny Paul. But yeah, I got I ended up with quite a few connections through that who appreciated my angle which is Look, I want to know now the answer to my question, not seven o’clock at night when you’ve got home from I’ve been 16 coffees all day when you finally Got to read your emails. Like, the deal is with someone else at that point. It’s, you know, it’s crazy. But yeah, that was another thing that went a bit viral as well.

Alex: Fantastic. So, if people haven’t heard the first episode I’m following you know, I’m following you on Instagram.

Jodie: Yeah.

Alex: Where? Where? Where is that? Where’s the BDM slugging going on?

Jodie: Oh, it’s on LinkedIn. Oh yeah, LinkedIn it’s a really old post now I think and what it did it did get some traction and but yeah, you can find it on LinkedIn my Instagram is not a professional arena in any capacity it’s just me but maybe yeah, maybe that’s what I should do. Maybe I should start an Instagram for work. It

Alex: It should be one on one in one on the same.
Jodie: Do you think?

Alex: I think people buy from people.

Jodie: I still talk a lot as a business on my Instagram, I just it’s not like a business Instagram.

Alex: I do not use my company Facebook page, my company LinkedIn, my company anything is all via me. And I get more out of it.

Jodie: Yeah, I think I think that’s the I think it’s the way to go. And I do definitely talk about I always throw, you know, one or two posts a month up on my stories. Just saying no, don’t forget, don’t get life insurance. Don’t forget mortgages don’t get addressed. And, and I always get a couple of leads off of that. And even sometimes it’s just people saying, Oh, I’m really interested. And we just have a chat. And then I’ll come back to me a little later and we’ll talk about it but yeah, yeah, I think you’re right. I think you should keep it all as one brand.

Alex: Nice. Love it. Awesome. I can’t believe we’re with them. I think we need to do it closer than a year. We need to catch up when I need to kind of get you drunk. You belong to one of our events as well so people can meet you in real life.

Jodie: Wow definitely, definitely. I would love to do that and get the winter over with so I can come out as my winter cocoon. And yeah, but definitely Yeah, just invite me along I think you went to Did you go to u printer?

Alex: Yeah, yeah it didn’t just go It was on the stage.

Jodie: Exactly. I think I need to go.

Alex: It is an amazing event.

Jodie: Yeah.

Alex: Really good.

Jodie: I should definitely make it to some sort of physical social interaction at some point in my life and stop the piano. Avoid at the end of the phone.

Alex: We’ve got our events in March there’s gonna be a load of brokers there in the lovely Peterborough March the 26th. I will send you a link.

Jodie: March is pretty clear for me. So where I could probably squeeze you in. I’ll try my best.

Alex: I will. Fantastic, awesome. All right, cool. Well, let’s do that let’s meet properly in March.

Jodie: Yeah.

Alex: Let’s speak again soon. And I’m loving that you get in the family involved and things are growing and I like your partner helping you out with every I was like visualizing oh no exactly what it’s like having a kid ourselves. But yeah sounds like it sounds amazing and I’m glad everything’s still going really well for you.

Jodie: Yes Yeah it’s great. It’s all a learning curve and to say

Alex: Oh god yeah

Jodie: We’ll see, you never know listen if you know God but this is me on record now all of you all my family members are as fireable as anyone else and I like my coffee with sugar in it.

Alex: I’m going to use that clip to promote this episode.

Jodie: I love it.

Alex: Fantastic. What an amazing note to leave on. Thank you so much for spending your time with us again, as amazing. And let’s see if you can be the number one episode of 2020 as well. That’d be pretty cool. All right, thanks very much. Bye-bye.

Jodie: See you later. Bye.

Alex: And there we have it. There’s my chat with Jody Stevenson. It is so good. catching up with her. And it sounds like businesses growing was great that she’s kind of getting people involved now it’s becoming a proper family business. So that is awesome. So she’s got a lot of work to do to see if we can get her as the number one download episode of 2020. We’ll see we’ve had a lot of amazing ones. some incredible ones coming up too as well. So don’t forget our event, March 26. Only a few weeks away now I literally got a couple of tickets left. It’d be great to see you there. If you need any more information, go to the lead engineer, click on the conference tab, or details, their agendas all kind of finalize all speakers are on there. We’ve got loads going on. I will see you next time.

72 – Inbetweenysode – Dead Leads

72 - Inbetweenysode - Dead Leads
72 - Inbetweenysode - Dead Leads

Welcome to another in between episodes. These episodes are in between our main interview episodes or articles.

Thanks a lot once again to Market Harborough Building Society for supplying our giveaway prize, which is a Canon m50 camera kit, for our event on the 26th of March. Comes with a memory card and a tripod which is good for vlogging.

Another podcast will be launch this week called the Equity Release Podcast to help educate consumers on equity release because whenever we’ve run ads for our clients about equity release, a lot of people express their thoughts and would leave aggressive comments saying that it is a scam, horrific, massive rates, taking your house, inheritance etc.

So listening to the interviews I’ve done about equity release, you’ll hear modern equity release is a great product. I’ve done equity release for advisors which are incredible. This industry just needs a bit of education. So if you are a mortgage broker, an IFA, financial planner, we’ve got interesting stuff for you to listen to.

We’re launching another podcast soon, it is called Bits of Behaviour, which talks about behavioural economics. Mark’s going to be at our event as well on March 26. Couple of tickets left, so grab yours now.

So I inquired for a car to a few car leasing companies. I inquired with about three or four different companies. Now, they’re chasing me via email and telephone and obviously no automation or text messages and I’ve lost my interest with the way they follow up about my inquiry. This happens all the time.

Email automation can help a lot in the business. There are different types of application or platforms you can use to send out a string of emails that gives information about the company which is being sent out to customers on a regular basis. Emails that will send relevant information about the service or product you are selling and just leave the decision to them. Having your contact details in the email such as your number in order for them to reach you.

Spending on advertising can also be worth it. Having your business on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram or a blog online on Google can open to a lot of opportunities, which is really cheap. £3 to £5 per day can get your business stay on top of each customer’s searches on Google.

So automation and a bit of advertising can improve your leads and make your business grow further as it does not only increase revenue and improve sales but it can also reach potential clients across multiple channels.

70 – Inbetweenysode – Linkedin Ads

70 - Inbetweenysode - Linkedin Ads
70 - Inbetweenysode - Linkedin Ads

LinkedIn Ads is paid advertising which can drive leads and reach your target audience. It can reach a more professional target audience by narrowing down the targeting options. Based on your campaign’s objectives, LinkedIn allows you to generate leads and creates a connection between you and relevant, professional audiences. Compared to Facebook, LinkedIn’s targeting selections are more high-level and custom to a professional audience.

How to advertise in LinkedIn:

  1. Pick your ad objective
    • Advertisers can run campaigns around intentions, such as brand awareness, lead generation, or website conversion or job applicants.
  2. Set up your audience targeting parameters.
  3. Add audience attributes
    • These include company connection, size, job experience, and interests depending on who you are targetting.
    • LinkedIn’s targeting abilities enable you to target audiences based on location, company, company industry, age, gender, education, job experience, job title, interests, groups, etc.
    • Interest – fairly new in LinkedIn ads and we will dig deeper into this on my upcoming in between episodes.
  4. You can add three different formats: single image, video, and carousel.
  5. PlacemenT
  6. Set your budget.
    • You can decide whether to set a total budget, or both a daily budget and total budget.
  7. Schedule