Jeremy Duncombe, the director of intermediary lending at the Accord Mortgages, joins us today in the Lead Generation for Financial Services Podcast. Jeremy has a background in intermediary lending as a business development manager for some lenders and has also served as a head of sales at Advantage, Morgan Stanley’s lender.
In this episode you will hear;-
1. Jeremy’s role at Accord Mortgages.
2. What Accord Mortgages does for its clients that make them stand out from their competitors.
3. The Accord’s Growth Series podcast episode that went viral.
4. The pool of free resources Accord Mortgages avails to their clientele and followers.
5. A case study example of a successful lead generation campaign run by one of their subscribers.
6. How Accord Mortgages helps brokers collate reviews and feedback from their clients.
7. The benefits of niching down in business.
8. The benefits of integrating your local community and your online presence to amplify your brand.
Jeremy Duncombe- LinkedIn
Jeremy Duncombe – Twitter
The Accord Mortgages Growth Series Podcast
Jeremy Duncombe- Free Resources
Jim Smyth, is the mortgage prinicipal adviser at First Stop Mortgages & Protection NI Limited. Jim started off in Protection in 2012 and got into mortgages in late 2018. In this episode you’ll hear;-
1. Jim’s backstory in his career life.
2. The importance of educating people about your services
3. Jim’s experience with a business coach he had hired.
4. How Jim and his brother expanded his business from Protection into Protection & Mortgages.
5. Jim’s first experience with a successful door to door business sale.
6. Techniques deployed by Jim to seek referrals.
7. The introduction of Social Media to grow their business.
8. Jim’s advice to people who want to get started in the Mortgage business.
9. Methods on how to optimise on Social Media Marketing.
10. Free video resources by Jim Smyth.
11. What Jim would do if he was to start from scratch today.
12. Importance of personal branding over commercial branding like logos.
13. How Jim and his team generate reviews for their business.
14. Jim’s advice to people struggling with Social media marketing.
I found Ash Borland on Linkedin and was delighted that he’s consistently using video to market himself. The aim is to catch up with Ash every 6-9months as kind of a case study to see the effects of social media on his business.
You can find Ash:
On Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyborland/
Hello and welcome back to the lead generation for financial services podcast. And my name is Alex Curtis. I’m doing something a little bit different this week. So I’ve got ash ball, and he is a mortgage broker. And he’s sort of not entirely at the beginning of his journey, but is it very early on in his journey in terms of these creating video content is using social media. I saw him on LinkedIn. I think someone local to me like something that he did. And I thought, Oh, this is cool. Someone as a local broker, they’re doing video I’m going to see what this guy is up to. And then eventually we got chatting and thought it’d be great if we get him on the podcast, chat about what he’s doing it and then what his plans are and then catching up with him in like six to nine months and using it as kind of like a case study and just seeing that progress and the benefits of creating content as a mortgage broker. So let’s dive straight in.
This is my chat with ash Borland Hello everyone and welcome back to the lead generation for financial services podcast and this week I’ve got another mortgage broker I’ve got ash bowling with me ash How you doing? Very good Thank you. Yeah Do you know what I was meant to ask you about how do I pronounce your last name so i think is it ball and is it Borland it’s all learned however
we obviously been chatting for a bit before we recorded and I think that was one of my questions I should ask but I just
got it right so we’re all good you spelled it right so that’s the best
I have to have made that mistake before going live with a guy called Gary any are two hours in his house and we nearly went live with the wrong spelling so has been done before recently I had a guy who’s Paul is named Paul with the W yeah I did it pa w
that was the worst email possibly said
Is he thinks proceeding with
Yeah, he’s going ahead, you can make mistakes and things still work. That’s what I love. Exactly. Otherwise I would be out of business because
the amount of times I just winging it through life and seeing things things are going right now as it was dyslexic so it’s one of those where I can’t I’m the mortgage advisor calm read Cartwright can’t spell and can’t add up so where’s the charm I’ll be quiet
well you you wouldn’t have heard it yet but there’s a guy called David Thompson that will be on the podcast before you He is dyslexic left school with no qualifications sold his brokerage for five of your English million pounds
so not not an issue when I didn’t know that he didn’t. He didn’t tell me that before.
Lovely segue into the first episode.
Brilliant. So I found you on I’m pretty sure it’s LinkedIn. I think because you’re kind of local to me. I’m in Peterborough, you
or Cambridge, why aren’t you and you’re working in Sundance and I was like, wow, there’s a mortgage broker doing some video. And I was like, this is, this is amazing. I thought maybe I’ve inspired someone that’s like, no, never, never heard of me. I never do.
But it was awesome to see. And I thought, I’m going to, I’m going to follow this guy. And we, we had obviously some chats here and there, and then you’ve listened to the podcast since and you seem to like it. And what I wanted to do because you’re sort of is about five months into your role at the minute as a broker. So five months into my with my new firm 18 months before that as well. Brilliant and you were an estate agent before That’s right. Yeah, yes, I washed my sins,
mano. I one of my friends used to be an estate agent in London. I’ve heard some awful stories which
I’ll share I’ll share one in the you can either confirm or deny whether you’ve seen it happen so so I went well well also set right max I think was like 2008 yeah do you know Rob? more progressive prophecy
because I’m yeah I was half that so no idea
yeah okay yeah we all know Rob yeah so my next door neighbor growing up was Rob’s first employee and he before then he worked as an estate agent in London and then Rob does all these property investment conferences and things like that and and then my Max Simon would go on and because he was estate agent he would help the developers build relationships with estate agents and he was saying some of the things that he saw happen was like one estate agent went on holiday and he locks the keys to the house that he was selling in his drawers and no one else and then the other agents could go show anyone else
So we didn’t lose the sale and the commission. It was it was that cut through shopping.
I know. And everyone was amazed that those sort of things happen and kind of think about so well, if it’s a bit if it’s a big deal, it’s obviously the wrong thing to do. But I don’t, I don’t condone it. I can see why someone might want to lock the keys away to get
a massive commission deal. Yeah, I definitely have not done that.
When I the way I phrased it was like, have you seen that
I’ve seen that. I also have a little silly thing with that is I actually went my other half is from Cyprus and we went on holiday to Cyprus. See our family and I got text when I left the plane. Because I’ve got a set of keys in my car was parked in Stansted
for three weeks
totally by accident didn’t
drive down there, use the spare key and open it and oh my god. Amazing. Brilliant
can be done on purpose.
Brilliant Tanya so the the idea of this episode is I think and I said to you on ID mg I said if you keep doing what you’re doing i can i can see this working for you in terms of doing like the video content everything like that and you’re sort of the sort of the beginning of that journey of that so the idea of this episode is the catch up with you now and then hopefully we’ll catch up in like six nine months see how things have progressed with these still doing the same thing so you’re already talking about creating like a network group and doing all sorts of different things that are going to generate new leads but this this talk about the moment then you decided you kind of wanted to switch from selling houses to do in like the finance of it okay
there was a question
yes so I am when I bought my own house what happened with it was housing estate agent for
Really about four years and I enjoyed the job I really did. But when I bought my own house, it became really, really clear and it sounds I had no idea what I was doing.
I was selling these houses Yeah, so I was advising people to do stuff that really I didn’t understand.
And I met a mortgage advisor, the guy did my mortgage, funnily enough,
I’m going to be I you know, he did a really good job but when I met him, I thought, Oh gosh, this is something that you can have more influence more impact and actually help more people that is genuinely what happened. Yeah,
he’s in he wasn’t that great. And so I thought, Okay, well, if I combined what I know from my stage and then I combine that with learning the mortgage side of things that I could be a bit more that could be my niche that’s where and so that’s how it started
when in stayed in my same company. So I was in corporate and I moved to cross into the financial service.
kind of learned that way.
And now really has been the last five months, I’m really able to, to become, I want to become
awesome. Brilliant. And then so how are you getting your light leads at the minute because you’re obviously working with fairly icon on the site, how many how many other advisors you start working with? And do you get given leads by the company or you? Yeah. So right now I get leads from I work with agencies because that’s kind of my, my forte. Yeah, so within a state agency still, because what I’m looking to do is be like a, like a whole mover die. So I do deal with agencies and I see them I’d go in there three times a week yeah, it’s gonna be in there all the time. Yeah, and I spend time at head office we have an orphan client banks, I’m just talking to those by Einstein and get leads from from the social media, which is good, where it kind of happened really, so I’m starting to get those as well. So it’s a real kind of wealth of
mixture yeah just very different from what it was six months ago where it was just that corporate state agency environment so it’s a completely different world really for me now awesome I think it’s great that you’re not just relying on the leads that you’re being given because I’ve spoken to
I lose count of how many brokers where they’ve gone from one role I was speaking to one person she she she you had been given estate agent type leads yeah and she was saying all my the standard conversion was like one in three she was expecting like web leads to convert in the same way like
I don’t have I don’t know how to break into I said have you spoke to any like brokers that are dealing with with web leads are you confident because I’m going to be honest I don’t think I can supply you leads that are will have a 33% conversion to say I just Yeah, I don’t think that’s going to happen and it was
This person had just dive straight out of that role into this self employed role with like,
no experience no no social media not like no nothing and it was that it is a completely different animal isn’t it? It is it really is and I I definitely am guilty for that when I first started so when I came over to so that when I’m at work for a fully light for financial planning firm and I expected like say when you’re in the agency the case sizes and massive you ever you know, people you meet are people who are buying Yeah,
but when you go into that, you know that world where it is literally just calling 10 people to hold the one person says yes, it was very, very different can imagine very much. So I do keep myself a little bit think if I was back in agency. Now, having done six months here, I probably absolutely clean up because yeah, just kind of like you say it’s a bit of a silver platter when you’re in when you’re in that corporate world. They just hand it to even book in your diary.
Wow but then so but are you preparing it now though yeah it’s been a massive learning curve of massive learning curve but I love it yeah absolutely love it it’s such a better it’s got really don’t want to disrespect the others because they are really good and my family work within that as well but it’s expensive for me because I’m a bit more there’s more freedom and I’m getting a creative person so I can’t really I don’t like
it’s kind of cool then there’s that bridge if you’re quite entrepreneurial in the role that you are you kind of got your little mini business of you with the but working with other people under underneath the sort of another brand and you and you’re so you’re it seems to me like you’re creating a bit of a personal brand that goes hand in hand is going to benefit you and the the guys that you worked for. Yeah, and that’s
the MD he’s completely on board with.
So that’s kind of the strategy we worked out together and you know he met me the minds of you and when we were chatting and and I kind of told him my vision of where i think i think i think where mortgages and mortgage advisors will go where the property industry will go and they told Matt and then he said okay pretty much I’ve got got
freedom to do it because I don’t know too many people
but it is one of those where it’s been brilliant really good actually amazing awesome so where do you think it’s good for them I I’m presuming you’re thinking people are it’s going to be more online he thinking Pete things are going to go I mean there’s already like the first kind of like paperless mortgage on offer from some of the banks and things like that I saw something more we strategy called the ladder Have you seen that then all that is yet but that’s like a hybrid that that was like a hybrid mortgage system so I was that was that yeah i think that so that part I think but yeah, I think the whole
Industry I think what’s going to happen is I think the property industry so like the stages and stuff that is a
it’s not dying industry but I think it’s gonna be industry that’s going to have to go through an entire like revolution really yeah disrupted already hasn’t it by like the purple purple bricks so I’ve got no it’s not talking about profits with mortgages here but yeah purple bricks everyone talks about them as if they’re the future but they’re not they’ve come in purely to disrupt you can see all over the stock was that they’re there they’re not they’re struggling now but they’ve done their job yeah and I think they’ve shed light on the fact that that industry needs to change and and no matter what we do as mortgage brokers we are tied to the how’s it how’s the industry so I think the personal brand service and nourishing and all of that stuff that’s where you’re going to make your money so it’s that you’re going to have to be a service as opposed to just selling products and that’s what I really do believe that’s what
Go whether or not I don’t know where it will go into within that but yeah but give it 510 years anybody who’s doing what they’re doing now I truly believe it will it will be there so I think because even if you could do as everything online people are still going to get declines and don’t know what to do they’re still going to be people who think I need some help some advice the best way I suppose especially like entrepreneur business owners they’re always going to want to get advice and they’ll be the type of people that are going to want to kind of get the best you know work different ways they’ve been more creative in terms of get better deals
and then yeah they’re just be like seeing ads on things that social media like prompting people to remortgage I think there’s always going to be that and there’s always going to need to be advice whether everything’s online or or not. I think the for me what I love about brokers is that they can they help people get like
better deals than just going to your your bank and I think it’s invaluable as well. I love working with them and then speaking to them as well that the same reasons you got into it people still been doing it for like 20 years they still get a kick out of helping someone like move house as well. So it’s it’s a lovely job I mean it really is. It’s the best thing I’ve ever done. I wouldn’t do anything else
but you will see me and I’ll be working with Tesco.
We are catching up with you in 6911 thing I did I did pick up from so I went on your YouTube channel didn’t know if he knows some videos from 2014 on there
do you want you want to introduce that that
so before I became an estate agent yeah I actually am a fully trained former wow and that’s actually where the video stuff come in. So I was as a kid I was a fully trained that wasn’t
dancer, singer actor, all that stuff and then at 2122 decided to do something else after obviously that was 150 grams with scholarships. And
so yeah, that was my original background, you got into property. And that’s where the hybrid for my personality. It’s, I love it because it’s just performance. So that’s where the video stuff so it’s, it’s not a I feel like I’ve married up what I spent my childhood learning and combine that with with this and it’s working. So it’s really good. Yeah, I still do it only on the side. Yeah, no, I think I saw something on Instagram and it was you dancing with your fiance. I was and I was like, she’s a ballet dancer. So that’s how I met
now on a mortgage broker. And she sells CCTV so
I’m asked to be one of the CO
It’s on the weekly
bit about is I’m happier now I’ll do this amazing I love it brilliant. So um one thing I wanted to talk about as well is you like facing that fear of doing video because a lot of people
don’t want to do it but I’m so I’m guessing then that background has helped a lot then. And what was it? Was it a thing for you when you
go? Yeah, it definitely was. And I tell you what I was to actually find out before coming on to hear a song to my fiance about it last night,
you’re worried because nobody else has done it. And like you said, there’s not many people doing it the moment going in front of the video and that sounds so old fashioned going in front of
That’s like your generation.
I was definitely all good. But it’s funny because the more you do it, the more confident I’m getting. Yeah. And then then the training kicks in today. I mean, so then it is like, then I’m starting to the performance stuff. But my first couple of videos which I did, I started off originally with the homebuyer hard and then I’ve got rid of it because
it just doesn’t have a name on it. It’s a lot less than today
but um, but yeah,
it gets better definitely. And now it’s quite element. Join it soon as we finish this. I’ll do another video. Awesome. So yeah, no, I think you just got to get in front of it and do it. I think so. Yeah, I literally did just did a Instagram I set up a new Instagram account. I did a one minute video every working day in January, not the one just got the one before and then you get to a point where you start thinking about the content, not the camera. There’s like a breaking point. I guess it’s different for everyone else. And then
Now when you start like and when we first and then there’s that. And then we have the being scared of going live. And we’ve done that, for God knows how many months now you just kind of get used to it like any new thing being in front of a camera and anything is any different and I don’t think anyone’s naturally good at it like, so I think like Tom Cruise would have been back in the day. He wasn’t born good acting.
I probably could have come up with someone better you know like three MacAllan or somewhere like that. But I think I just think it’s a skill that anything else and you’ve got to like the the conference and went to last week was about feeling the fear and do any anyway.
So what did so what was your sort of plan then originally? Did you just think I’m going to practice and not use it or did you use the first ones? How did you say the first one What happened was um. Where I where it became what so to again all tongue tied with
Where where the idea came from was my man my missus well she follows loads of these influences on social media and there’s loads of industries where
you know like the so that the beauty industry all that stuff they do the beauty the fitness so there’s always people are more than happy to jump in front of the camera and show off yeah there was in our industry it usually attracted that person who’s quite introverted not really interested so there’s a huge market there for somebody who is willing to jump in front of the camera
when I did my first couple of videos I did put them up but they’ve been pulled down very quickly
because they were really really just wouldn’t yeah we wouldn’t and I think you know Gary das you’ve had on the on here already carry send me a lovely message saying I can’t hear you
so I bought one of these wonderful microphones on his brilliant and they’re not expensive on a what how much was
quid that was so nice that the road thing is yes literally I got from him telling me it was this
and a microphone and that is literally it
you don’t need to go out and get a load of expensive kit like I do the majority of my film in either so I’ve got this webcam which was 75 glitter and I that I’ve got one light
I’ve got the microphone for the podcaster stuff I don’t need that if I was just doing like video video I would literally just do it all my pixel three the camera on it’s amazing the camera on the smartphones and the minute Are you do not need to buy
a thing and then I’ve got this selfie stick but I’ve got one which is rubbish but I’ve got one that he’s got like the it’s more like a steady cams. It’s got like the suspension so none of that stuff is expensive. Not
And it doesn’t mean people are they didn’t care about the quality of the video. I don’t think it’s like that. It’s like the content. It’s you know, as long as it’s all doable, you know, wasn’t
exactly brilliant so so what is great because I was a bit because I was kind of like wanting to get you on and talk about like feeling the fear and do it anyway in terms of the video I think great to hear that even though you were trained in performing you still felt like you were wooden so if people who haven’t done that and they and they do it the first one I think I’m more than that they can still do it and crack on and get better and better and better. Definitely. Definitely. I think it’s
you also feel like no one’s watching. Yeah, but I’ve noticed that and it’s really funny because I think we were talking before but you feel like no one’s watching but
This week I’ve had a few people quite a few people come up to me and go well I really love what you’re doing but nobody’s commenting as you said that they don’t and they don’t because they don’t want to be the first one to do it. Yeah and but it is it’s weird like I’ve had like my parents I said why once a week and they’ll go oh my main down when we were at the coffee shop. He said that you’re actually doing great and I think well, no one’s saying anything. No, absolutely. I think we I mean we had that same thing in our Facebook group, we got this, this group and it felt like and I spoke we’ve got a guy called Chris Ducker who’s like I get I can go on a call with him once a month and I was like, saying, it feels like I’m talking to a brick wall and then he said, just ask, just answering like What does everyone prefer the morning coffee tea just something stupid like and then I did and since then he was that interacts with see literally people are interacting Well, we’ve got people asking questions and things like that sometimes like we did it for ages.
Slide. That group is two years old now. And it’s only now people are starting to talk to us and like letting us know and that and the podcast is helping. It’s a long it’s a long game. It is a long game, but I I don’t know anyone who’s not benefiting from it that has done it for a while. That is consistent. And then I think as long as you’re and you mentioned, I don’t know what the post you mentioned was you I think he did a video on this actually, if you don’t worry about the sale if you actually just think about helping people then the sales will actually come and like I said,
I think it was he would just do it because you’ve started doing those little vlog type videos where you
run from when I’m walking back from the agency but yeah, it is and it’s that’s something that the oldest is about is
When I when I when you’re in corporate you do what what you want you know you do what they tell you to do and now what I’m what I’m trying to do is be the more like me and then try and get people to be attracted to me because here’s who I am. Yeah so
that’s where this is like it’s just effectively so my clients that one they’re all calling me once you’re on the phone but it’s like it’s one of those where I want them to have all access. So I want my clients to see like, I like tattoos. I want my clients and know I’ve got tattoos. I want my client to know when I’m down the shop I want I want to know everything because that way then then that they can’t be expecting something that you don’t I mean people have real people
literally there’s literally people do just like if you trust someone you like someone and especially when you’re giving because you’re kind of selling advantage. I can’t buy that from someone if I don’t trust them.
It was a penny Penny dropping moment for me was so my dad was very high up in corporate finance for years and years retired now and I always wanted to you know always that you can win everybody you can win everybody over we went for a drink and he was saying something or kind of exactly was but he was that I when I realized we were talking I would never win his business ever like so why am I even try
and assume that was a breakthrough it really well and a couple of breakthrough moments where it became really clear and I’m really quite bullish now in my appointments I charge the most money from all of my all of my competitors have never had an issue and I am very bullish in the sense that when I’m talking to clients I made them aware that the interview this first point that is for me to free them to work out if they like me, but also to me to work out whether I like that Yeah, no, absolutely and people like that is true, you know, because the end of the day
My client calls me on a Sunday and I will answer the phone. If I can’t stand them, you’re not going to then we’re going to answer the phone, then it’s a poor service and they pay for a good service. So if you think it’s again, it’s a long game and it goes hand in hand with the social media. Yeah,
but you really it’s like that old bloody sales. But you know, the raving fans you have to create your kind of tried. Yeah, and the social media stuff allows the thing really does. Yeah, no, absolutely. And Chris Duckers keynote from Friday. A couple of things he said was your tribe will get your vibe
exactly right. And then you want to attract like a magnet. So you want to attract the people that you like, and repel the ones that aren’t going to work well with you. Especially if you want to Yeah, no one’s gonna want to say call on a weekend from someone that they don’t like he really liked some you really want to work with them, then they almost become like a mate don’t they in your
You’re helping them out and then you quite happy to take that
silly example I put it up on my Instagram but like me and my other half of really into million dollar listing that I think I’ve seen into it not like I’ve got the guy’s name and that’s it I see that post and that was I we listened to his book because I listened to sales but because he’s an ex performer that then became a real estate so it kind of really worth and but yeah I was talking to these clients on Saturday and do the face to face appointment and told him to watch this and then on Sunday they will make an offer on a house and they kept sending me texts going oh you know we’re going to play Ryan sir and harmful and honest and that’s what and it’s silly and that’s the thing I’m after like after these guys like that I’m texting them what’s happened the most time because you can tell it read it
but you know like then these guys will use me hopefully for ongoing and that’s where you’ll get referred.
Might you say you will get wrapped the people you want instead of dealing with all the people who they don’t want to work may not even know them.
I love it. It’s awesome. Cool. So have you I was thinking we might have some people that were kind of working as an estate agent now and they’re thinking they like this idea of making that leap across so you got any advice for those those people just do it hundred percent Yeah, it’s the best decision if you are in estate agents and you are doing like just doing that and you are a customer focused person so you have to I think you have to be customer focused you also have to be honest so if you are if you you know if you’re an honest estate agent which is you have to aim but if you are
then definitely definitely do it and the a lot of estate agents I think I put off by the exams yeah it was for me like mentioned the beginning from being dyslexia
Yeah, do it. It’s worth it. But lots of the big corporates will pay to your training anyway. Yeah. So it’s I think, but you definitely need to if you’re going to go that route, you definitely what I would stay with your company and make the move, because I think we were talking before they said about don’t go self employed in it in like what I’ve just done now in the garden to affirm because it’s a whole different ballgame. Yeah,
but if you stay within your kind of world, so still agency, and then you make the move from estate agent to Fs so it’s a mortgage broker, then you you’re when you really well because all the clients care about in that environment is can you help them buy the house? Yeah, so your knowledge as an estate agent will separate you
from all your other competition if they’re from a bank, for example. Yeah, no, awesome. How long did it take you to sort of do all the qualifications and everything and when you or how long was it until you decided you were going to make that move and for you to to do it for you? I was on and off the year so when I left I left
called Performing Arts College in the year of working as a performer then went to agency. And the reason I was going to go into as to be a broker then because so my dad at time, he was training development director for the Cardinals group. And so when it’s called, and he said, I’ll go and do mortgages, first of all, and I just said, I can’t be bothered. I don’t want to do those exams. But as I put it off the original idea,
and then and it’s and it’s probably very similar to what you said with your guy before. So that was more of my own demons. My own kind of, I wasn’t very good at school, I didn’t really understand, so I will, I’ll just do the selling. And then I’ve toyed with the CF six and CF one books for the whole time because my sister’s a broker and my brother was a broker
and I kept seeing them doing it and then
eventually I just had it
so that’s three years of just reading it not doing it and we and then eventually it is kind of you had like a moment You think I don’t know why.
Just go for it. Yeah
and I made a transfer across to a different brand under the same company
and it’s brilliant and it was a lot It was very hard and if I didn’t know a state agency
I definitely would have saying yeah
you know I think the as anybody who’s a broken nose these the learning curve is like
but see how confidently pages are you think
your audience thinking that horizontal is Yeah,
get some comments reviews coming on it, but the whole horizontal vertical thing I’m not
I don’t have a clue. Gosh, but dyslexia There you go.
It’s brilliant. It’s best thing I ever did. And then
Yeah, it took about it took about six months. All in all I did. I did. Yeah, I did that. And I remember my, my loving father said to me, I was like, Oh, he said, he said, he said,
Oh, he said, You definitely, you revise. And you studied, he said, and you failed and his exact words were I think if you fail again, it’s definitely not the right career for you. Like you said,
because I can’t have my son on the train and develop director failing to test all the time
no pressure for the past.
One of my one of my favorite books is by my mentor. Failure breeds success where it’s like literally you it’s good to get to fail. You learn more by doing things wrong. And when he does it all when it goes into schools, especially when it goes into like public schools, and the kids have got loads of money they can go and do whatever they want. He says, I wish you all the failure in the world
You that’s where that is literally the best learning sucks it does it does suck but then you can always take you can always take positives out there I think I always thought yeah and I think you’re you’re right it’s it’s never nice when you’re in it not always look back I think it’s when you’ve got over it and you look back and you know that was actually good about your comfort zone is there I mean it’s just one of those things but just got to keep getting
quotes I love is
it’s not crowded in the extra mile so like when because there’ll be a lot of brokers thinking oh you know Gary’s in video now she’s doing video now there’s not as I think there’s plenty of room for hundreds more but in terms of like that the brokers in general there’s thousands of them Yeah, but what it must feel competitive and crowded marketplace but then you’re going the extra
Mind with this video stuff that then it’s not crowded that you’ve got, you’ve got no competition I’ve never had, I don’t I don’t worry about the competition. And that’s really like an award I did a year ago. So it’s really silly. But you’re right with Gary, that and I think the more brokers who can do this, the better like because once you start doing this you start investing in yourself I think. Yeah, man when when someone says, Well, why do you charge x and they charge why instead of getting in this comparison. You say, Well, I chose that because I’m me. Yeah. And I don’t make comments on what they do. So don’t mean that like it really and I think the thing where and Gary does does this and I’ve had lots of debates within our kind of office about needing your niche you really are gonna
you’re not going to lose I think you’re just not going to be the best you can be. Yeah, I think just having that focus, especially if you’re doing like content for us when we start our agency.
We used to be the lead engine was lead generation for anything. We worked on all sorts of things, sports products, engineering companies. And it was hard in terms of marketing, but also in delivery because we were now because we just do find it services. And the majority of the stuff we do is mortgages. We’ve learned so much in terms of delivery, we can deliver mortgage work easier, but also when we’re marketing as one of the podcast. So, you know, if I had just done a lead generation podcast, I wouldn’t have the listeners that I have now because it’s not for anyone. It’s for everyone. Then you’re the podcast you say and I wrote a review on yours I think you’ve already seen it
I’ve been looking for so you’re saying about me doing the videos and Gary and stuff but it’s the same with the podcast like I’ve been looking for podcast podcast that does what you’re doing for years like there isn’t anybody doing it and it seems really weird in our industry that nobody is doing it everybody’s a bit shy. Yeah. Every other industry
This podcast for everything. Yeah, I mean, and there’s no reason why a broker can’t do that. But we had Pete Matthew on. He was episode one. He’s a financial planner. And he did a podcast and he’s like 810 years in now. And he’s ridiculous people queue up to work with him. He said about and this is what I was in the chat because actually, that’s when we were talking about me getting on. Yeah, because I was in the gym listening to that. And he was talking about Gary Vee. And I was thinking yeah, like you
talking about that. No, mortgage advisors are doing that if they did, and he was literally just saying what I’m doing and I was like, brilliant I’m definitely on the right track. No one’s liking it. I’m still this guy says he’s right. Definitely. I think that it’s it’s literally is it literally is like baby steps, baby steps, baby steps and I’m not I mean, I’m just getting started myself. So I’m not one to talk about these things. But from what I’ve seen of people who I’ve luckily I’ve created a master minds
of people that have gotten much
podcast audiences and they’ve been doing it for five six years and from there it’s just they’ve all do the similar things in it and it just kind of kind of works it’s all each other like you said before that I
had a couple of brokers messaged me which again I said this the other half about it again I said this is where you can see where some people think that you become an influencer. And I’ve only done it very small that time. But these young brothers have messaged me saying what would you do and I think you’ve already
he’s lovely because that is part of it. It’s not like you said it’s not about I’m not worried if other people the videos in fact, if anybody learning your lessons are doing videos, I’d love to talk to them because it’s it you know, I want to be a home buyer specialist. But if you’ve got somebody who does buy to let it really want to do that, and I mean it’s always fun and that’s the reason why you can’t do a color video with with someone
and you talk about your expertise they taught there there’s
That’d be awesome
it was cold well we’ve been recording for nearly 40 minutes which feels like
three minutes what I wanted to do with you is set some scary goals for when we next speak okay so six to nine months and then we’ll we’ll come back and listen to this section in fact we may we could play it out in six nine months so what in terms of the the marketing the the lead gen everything you’re doing what your what’s your scary goal a scary go so doesn’t need to be realistic like
I should be getting seven like a lead every day from my videos I don’t spend any money on something like that something crazy that would be
I would be looking at I’ll be looking for a lead but maybe three leads a week from my from my social media which
Hopefully animals are looking for
I’ve been looking for a bigger reach on social that’s what I would like to be some I’m right now the focus on leads it’s that’s lovely in the back burner because I think it’s a so right now I would like to be a further reach so that my goal would be that more people reach out to me and you know that’s for you know be that brokers or be that
be that yeah like clients but reach out to me via social media that would be if I do get my lead source to be 60 70%
for social I’d be absolutely
brilliant I think I’m gonna say I think anything at nine a week nine away yeah okay and then we’ll we’ll play this Facebook posts
and we’ll see see who wins the winner gets a prize
I think that’d be really awesome to do and I hope it’s well above what you’re expecting
think so I think if you keep that consistency going because you are literally pull it putting it out
you know really yeah is that which again is one of those that’s one thing I would say to anyone who’s good doing it if you want you’ve got to really love it yeah
yeah cuz may not be video because I if you’re if people feel that the video the podcast is another thing that you can do and you can push quotes on that for that can be you create that one big bit of content whether it’s video podcast whatever and then you can use that as your your bits for social and you don’t have to interview people you could do like solo one there’s so many different opportunities yeah I mean there’s loads of exciting stuff I have loads of ideas of what I was like I made a little black book Bible my ideas for where I can take things
because the main thing of mine is literally just trying to lift the lid off of the estate agents the industry and that help people with that so that’s really so when you go and speak to the agent when he says your offer needs to be qualified buyer in house moment.
explain to the agent the clients are actually what that means because there is a spirit the smidgen of truth within that
but not the full lots of that so that definitely Yeah Then what about
here and we’ll end on a strong note
key takeaway right the other week just slight not
for the love it do you thank you so much for for joining me sharing everything I’m really excited to get this episode out there and then I’m really looking forward to that catch up episode where we play that clip back and said I see where you are with it and obviously following you and give you I can get I feel like I can give you more banter now and your your posts go for it please do
even just some nasty things on there there’s at least at least that involves a lot save the nasty stuff with the M’s and then
the banter for the for the public.
Thank you Mike so have you What is your where’s the best place for I know obviously on LinkedIn is Ash ball and what’s the I can’t remember your Instagrams all over it so I’ve got
at Borland on Instagram yeah I’ve got Facebook page which is connected to that which again is just attached Borland I use Twitter which is the some idiot took a dashboard and so it’s at Baldwin
mess that the consistency and then and then LinkedIn as well which is just me yeah they all kind of have the same stuff and been more active on Instagram or anything else yeah no matter Instagrams my preferred thing I have no continuity or or any of my social media stuff I try to well there’s like a million people called Alex kurz for Star is like the most common name ever but my my Instagrams like Insta Kurt yeah
just tweet okay
last night and my mate who was singing with me he said who’s into the case
because I was messaging you
know His name’s Alex
yeah that’s it
really yeah definitely Instagram is the name of because I’m I love the stories as well another story so brilliant Everyone follow ash given some banter encouragement
just that deleted them
but yeah definitely I would recommend following the the Instagram for the stories just having a look at some of the content that you’ve got that kind of design that you’ve got your posts in terms of your tips and things like that there’s loads of things people can from learn from seeing that and it’d be great to see that grow as well. Brilliant. Thank you. All right, mate. Thank you What we’re going to start
I know and we’ll speak soon
and then we have it I’m genuinely excited to catch up with ash in like we said six nine months we’ll definitely get him back on the podcast just see what kind of effects you know how’s he stuck with it as he you know, a lot of people do this kind of marketing thing and and give that but I’ve got a I’ve got a feeling that actually is going to be very successful seems very driven all the kind of the things that he’s been talking about, I can tell he’s got the passion for what he does, I think he’s going to be very successful at it. So I’m very excited to see where he’s getting up. And I made a bit of a bold prediction about the leads that I think he’s going to be generating from the content that he’s doing. So if you enjoy that chat with ash if you’re a mortgage broker, or if you are, in fact if you do any kind of financial service, even if you’re at that beginning of your journey, and you’re happy for us to document your your journey, please do get in touch with me if you join the lead generation for financial services group on Facebook, and then chats me on there and we’ll see if we can set something up if you’ve enjoyed
The show please do rate and review us it really, really helps especially in iTunes so I would appreciate that and then I will see you next time for another episode of the podcast cheer CRM.
The second of a two-part episode with Mortgage Broker Gary Das from Active Mortgages.
We continue chatting through Gary’s 7 steps to generating your own leads.
Jodie like all other broker bought leads but was curious about how they did it. So, she taught herself and now has too many leads. You can join her firm and get all the leads you need or buy the leads from her.
We talk through how she gets all her leads through Google Ads and the USP that makes all the difference.
Connect with Jodie on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodiestevenson
Hello, and welcome back to the lead generation for financial services podcast. And this week, I’ve got an actual mortgage broker on the line with me. So this is taken from a live interview in our Facebook group. And not only are they a mortgage broker, she generates her own leads, she does everything herself. And she’s inundated with leads. So she also needs to find some brokers to help her out, deliver those leads, or she can sell those leads as well. So not only you’re going to learn how she does it, but if you don’t want to do it yourself, you can buy those leads from her. And what she does is a very simple tactic as I mean you can do as well. And I’m really excited to share this interview with you. So let’s dive right in. So I can see what are some of the big banks? I think I saw there was a Santander and Lloyds in on united. Yeah,
So my, actually my dad worked for Halifax for a really long time. And so did my sister. And so today and at one point, I think we may have all been in the same region at one time, which was very confusing and but yeah, we all we all wait for family facts
and then Sunday
Yeah. Okay. What’s I assume the culture is very different in a big corporate like that. And then it is to like, it’s like a what kind of size brokerages Have you worked in, like, I’ve always been like working remotely or you’ve been in like the Office of those smaller companies.
And that To be honest, the culture difference between Halifax and sometimes there was huge, right? Just that change was like, horrifying to me because Halifax really advanced sort of technological sense. And then sometimes I was like quilting It was really yeah terrible that really, really backwards with everything that the day I don’t know if the better now. But yeah, it was a huge learning curve for me going from essentially sitting in a robot chair and just everything being done for me. Yeah, they will just like will do it all yourself now. And I was like, I don’t really know how to. And so that was a big learning curve. And I’d always been in very big branches and then when I left the banks I went to a tiny brokerage with I think there were about six or seven people there and and it was actually a debt management company right, which was totally different and I was selling life insurance and to debt management clients which was impossible
Yeah, it was really it was really difficult we were offering and basically just offering and financial services in general and it did get the company was great but but then I went to
via via bridges and and I was doing expert mortgages for Abu Dhabi, so Doha, Qatar Dubai etc so that was my first as a mortgage application was and here you go his next patch figure it out yeah okay
i five and I think that’s kind of how I got into and complicated mortgage cases because I don’t think I’ve ever done straightforward mortgage
Yeah, no, I think we’re a lot of brokers do. I guess a lot of
the majority of people first port of call, they just think of their bank and then I guess the really simple easy ones go through and then you’ll have a percentage of people that just look around anyway, and then i’m saying is people either been turned down or it’s just like, too complicated or whatever. And that’s where the, you’re a lot of your broker work comes from? Yeah,
pretty much. Yeah, yeah. What recommendations and then which I’ll, I’ll talk about later, but there’s also my sort of niche and that that helps me gain those extra clients that aren’t referred to me. So there’s, there’s my sort of my USP as it is and that helps me get my additional client so yeah,
okay, good. Well, let’s actually dive into that and let’s talk about getting clients. There’s a lot of brokers that I know have an brokerages have lived off referrals and they’re really good because people know who they are. They kind of trust them already.
Have you got any tips for getting more of them
recommendations from clients and
just ask, you
know, I think the biggest lesson I ever had was like, Don’t Don’t be too proud. Yes, they said look, this is free there may need I need more. So if you know anyone who and who needs a mortgage, just please get a shout out. And as of yet, I’ve never had to give a referral bonus to anyone. Right. A lot of people do it. I’m sure it works.
But yeah, not so one. one bit of advice my business mentor gave me about getting referrals was rather than saying Do you know anyone say can you think of one person that you think I could help and then so it’s easier for the brain to like run thing and all who you know all these people think it’s a bit of an easier job or I’ve only got all think of one person and then you finally get more referrals from it.
So that’s one thing that I picked up and it does actually work quite well you’re either get an email a day later say no Can you speak to Joe Bloggs or whatever
okay I’ve noticed and I generally always connect with my clients on and a platform so if it’s like friend who’s been referred by a friend will maybe and connect on Facebook but if it’s just a completely a client then maybe we’ll connect on LinkedIn but whichever channel they’re on I tend to put one very brightly colored and graphic that’s may be bright yellow and it just says this is all it says I do mortgages yeah and I just throw it off every probably every month or two months I just throw it out there as to get on my my personal Instagram or stick it on my Facebook and it just says Addy mortgages and people just go up God just marketers and now all hours get one message off the bat really I thought you did mortgages
so it doesn’t do anything like creative like because you could put you could write it down on a post it note or something so quite bright aren’t they and take a photo of it or do you is it literally just like a graphic
it’s just a graphic it’s I’ve got like a text app and singing it’s like a almost like a word art but it’s you can just pick your colors and sometimes I’ll do with it and it’s always really bright and like garish so when you pull in your stop and look and but yeah it’s just it’s just something I tend to do just to keep that keeps my friends on their toes because a lot of times I’ll catch them on I will go oh my god I’m always up for renewal next month and I’m like perfect
so okay cool so you’re putting that on your your personal Instagram your personal Facebook your personal LinkedIn literally once a month
cool and is it literally the same one or you like doing different time it says I do mortgages sometimes it says I did commercial mortgages sometimes it says Addy life insurance and but most of the time is a simple as I do and then the thing I’m pushing on yeah so I think you you get so like buried in your own work that you like a shim like even your classmates that they remember that you don’t bachelor is really nice prompt and if you getting you getting a decent lead once a month for doing like a two second job obviously the return on that is amazing.
Yeah they say yeah
bro and then because Have you so you’ve never have needed to offer an incentive Do you think you’d get any more if you do I see me doing because you don’t do it
and I’ve never tried it
I’m not I don’t know I’ve never really been one to do things like that I’ve always wanted the value of my way to be the reason why someone to marry me and not just because you can’t get credit
yeah know exactly exactly
maybe it works maybe it doesn’t you know ask me in five years time when I’m ended up six found to everyone
Exactly. Well, we would thinking about a system the we we It was just an idea is one of those ones who put in the idea box and never done anything with it where you can everything’s automated for you just put their email in and it will send them an email and they can get like an Amazon voucher if they refer and when the lead comes through on your website. You’ll notice referred by so and so
an affiliate link
Yeah, basically. But we never got we never got kind of far with it.
But yeah, interesting. Okay, cool. So besides that, you must be living off more than one lead a month. What what else you doing to get those in.
So I as everybody has ever done, I bought leads about lots of leads and cold hard data, which are trolled. I have bought red hot hot keys. And I’ve done it all I’ve literally bought every kind of lead in the universe
and felt great, you know, they all work and buying leads, I would say, buying contact data lead, which is someone gone somewhere and entered saying, Please bring me the best kind of leads. And so the ones are a bit too cold, and the other ones are just very expensive. And because hotkeys can be super expensive, so I kind of settled in this, you know, called Data Entry lead zone. And, and I’m a bit more sort of curious than, than the average bear. And I was like, how are they figuring out how to do these, I want to figure out how they do this. And, and it led me into, and at the time, I was doing life insurance. And I started thinking about how I used to sell life insurance at the bank. And I would always, I’ve always been trained now that if you’re selling something, you’re doing it wrong. And so I would always use a different door to get into the house that I wanted to go into, basically. So and we would offer free will. And with every well we do a life insurance interview and life insurance. So that’s how we would sell to them. You can make that work on Facebook. And because I didn’t really know anything about Google Apps at that point, I went through Facebook and advertised free wills. Basically, that was it and got tons of leads through it was gray. And and that’s kind of how I narrowed that down. And and then I moved into mortgages, and it did not work so well on Facebook
tried. So now started looking at Google ads and AdWords and what I’m really looking at. We had a Google and digital Garrett. I don’t know if you’ve heard of those? Yeah, yeah, we had a digital garbage in Sheffield for ages is probably a year. And I went to probably five or six different courses that Yeah, and that kind of taught you the basics. If I’m honest, it did only teach you the same as what YouTube can teach you bomb paint shop next door. So yeah, it was great for me. And so I went there. And I learned a little bit about Google AdWords. And then I thought I can do this for that’s why
also real back early, when we talk about buying leads will come to the will come to the the garbage stuff. I’ll just do a shameless plug actually spoke Google event, one of the garbage events. And whoever
faces I was funny, actually, because we, we had this event and our business center. And it was like speakers, Google, Barclays, the lead engine,
slightly different leagues there. But yeah, I want to come back to buying leads. And I totally agree. I think the people that have inquired and you’ve got those leads, they’re obviously the best ones, because they want the mortgage, we find in that those people selling you those leads, we’re also selling them to like other people as well. And you have to like dive on the phone first or not.
It depends, there are plenty of people who are selling leads like that in that format. And I think it’s really important to find the right kind of people and and make sure that if you signing any agreements that it does say that it is a single use lead,
and make sure you know, you get in. And again, don’t be afraid to talk to the client when you pick the phone up. Can I just ask, Does anyone else called you
make the inquiries? Anyone else called you? And I’ve make a list of it, and then go back to the people and say, Look, he’s telling me like three times over lead here. So you know, let’s talk let’s talk about this because it’s not that’s not what I’m asking. Yeah,
no, absolutely. I think if the same names keep going up, then it’s pretty obvious that that leaders being caught in the same place you will you will get people that themselves in choir. Yeah.
Okay. Interesting. Cool. Okay. All right, then say sort your so a Facebook was working well for for life, when you are sort of doing the free world What would you like your conversion rate from speaking so as people on wills, to getting them into like a life policy when you did the Facebook stuff.
So it was high, it was very high. And the wealth I would say it was about 25%. So so 25% of the world’s I wrote had life insurance on them, which is not bad going and the actual contact rate from and I would like a will to
picking the phone up and organized know, will appointment was great. He showing up to the appointment, or the person actually doing the well was was that was where you lost a lot of them. Yeah, people like in the moment, they just kind of wanted to do it. He thought maybe they do a form online. And that was kind of where you lost the majority of people, which is fine, because they’re the people you want to lose. Really, really want to do it. And but now it’s pretty good. We had a pretty high conversion rate, so and so wills to life. Yeah.
Do you mind talking cost humans? Can we work out what the the cost per lead was on then if we take a lead or 50 leads a month lead on a gross basis? Yeah. Okay. Cool. And then. So in terms of our can we work out our cost to acquire a new life insurance customer base?
I think it was coming in.
I want to say it was around
it was like 100, 250
pounds. Like when you fully Natalie write down 350 pounds? Yeah.
Hey, size of 1400 pounds. Yeah. Well, it was great. Yeah,
exactly. I don’t think anyone because if you go on Google engineer, look at the cost for like, life insurance quote, and things like that. You’re looking at 2530 credit. Click, hundred quid a lead if you give up line for Maggie. So you’re getting your customer acquisition about what people are getting a lead for that? Yeah. So therefore, yeah, let’s just do a lot more of that kind of sounds
awesome. And then it sounds like then. Yeah, you’re right. A few wills. I mean, some people that that are going through, but if your CPA is that low, and then in terms of your time, I suppose you you will not so considering your time as an individual go out and do it. But it sounds good in terms of
what is all based, so. Right. Okay. really been taking my time national, so.
Oh, fantastic. So sorry. When you said appointments, I thought you meant you were going out to
now just like telephone
and the same. Basically, you are
the one hand off of that for life. Yeah,
definitely. Yeah, it was great. It was, it was great. Life Life Insurance is great. And as a
as a, so products and to help make some money. And, but she is a cruel mistress.
It’s like, I call it the holy grail of, of legions. It’s like, such a because, like, I think he’s, I love the old way you’ve done it, because maybe we’ll just go for life, you know, go straight in with life. And it’s one of those things that like, with a mortgage, you’ve got, like, I want to buy this house. I mean, some people like, oh, something’s falling through. I need this house. I need this mortgage now. Whereas we live. It’s like, I can do it tomorrow. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
different color fish. Yeah.
So you still need that urgency to flip it into something else? because no one’s ever going to be in a rush to buy life insurance. Unless they can’t have it. Know that deeply want it? Yeah,
obviously, I think the, the closest you can get to it is when someone’s just had a kid and then your and then it’s that fine line of like, talking about about death and things like that. We’ve we’ve got a we do a show called talking ads, where we, we talked about the ads in our feed. I’ve seen some really good life insurance websites. I think one’s called dead happy. I think
I saw it last night. Yeah, yeah,
I guess. Um, yeah, absolutely. Love it. We’re, we’re looking at creating our own life brand that is much more than tourists, then, you know, and we’ll talk about No, no, exactly.
Exactly. You do not. Yes. The last thing I want to talk about, I think adding some humor into it. And with anything is is great. So cool. All right, then. So obviously, looking at AdWords then, and Google Ads aren’t. So we’re looking at, basically, people are searching for mortgages, and you’re basically taught yourself and yeah, talk us through what, what you learn and how things have change. When So when did you start doing the Google stuff?
And I think it was two years ago, and I think it was two years ago now, baby, so
it could have been yesterday.
I know when things have actually happened. I’m losing at the minute. But yeah, he’s suddenly five months old. And I don’t really know where that’s gone. must have been about two years. Yeah. So, yes, that was about two years that I’ve had it running for, yeah. And, and that was, I started off with a very, very, very small, but felt she Mungo’s budget. And, and I kind of I remember, I launched it on January 1, and I was like, this is it. This is it. I got the website bill. And it was so painfully simple as well. Yeah, I know, don’t put anything out. Like, what about when I was like, no, nothing, I’ve just want this, this, this and this, and then submit. So it was really, really simple. And, and I remember my first lead that came in, I was like, and yeah,
so it was it was definitely exciting. I remember like, setting it all up and being like, Oh my god, I can’t believe I’m spending money and I might not get anything back from it. And it was terrifying. And, and I kind of really did roll the dice on it. Because this was my only I cancelled all my leads that that I know, or the sources coming in. I was like, Oh, god, this is this has to work. Yeah, it’s very expensive. Yeah.
So So how have you seen prices increase in those sort two years, or
I’ve never had a wavering of my cost per acquisition ever isn’t the same now for 10 years. And it took me six months to get it to that, that sweet spot. And and then it’s it’s never it’s never changed from there.
Okay. So what mortgage products are you going on? He doing like remote or anything? Just commercial mortgage?
Okay. Brilliant. commercial market? Yes. Yeah. Okay. But as a byproduct of that, I get our lives back to last.
Right. Okay. National melted. Yes. Brilliant. So are you then in terms of the keywords obviously, going after? What I don’t know what the volume is on off top my head for commercial mortgages. What what sort of volume? Is it UK wide?
And I don’t know. And because I have genuinely not changed anything for a year and a half? Yeah, I haven’t changed the thing. I’ve left my keywords. I have have multiple meetings with my Google person, the one who knows you and Hound you to change things. Yeah, I changed it. Everything goes horribly wrong. And then I go back and undo, undo, undo, undo. Undo and normal and so perhaps I’m sort of stuck in my way is slightly
know I think there’s something wrong with that. We have just had a client today I’m just while we’re chatting, I’m going to log into my cell phones just to look at numbers
we Yeah, it’s don’t fix it was not working. You always want to, you know, you want to scale because I mean this Meanwhile, love financial services, is it scalable, and you were talking earlier about I just, you know, it’s my phone, my laptop,
which is great for scale. Yeah. So people always want to kind of increase it and things like that. If you’re just getting leads for yourself, then you don’t want to play around with it. And the other lesson is the people that Google employ to do that job that’s normally their first job at Google and their objectives are for you to spend more money and get more traffic weather is your objective is to get more leads and a lot of the time they don’t understand that they think I just want to get more more traffic more traffic but it doesn’t necessarily
and I’m like and I don’t want more people to click it more people to want it and actually commit to something backfilling a form and it’s all about the click through
ok cool so I’m just
pretty high actually on the volumes and because again if you go in for commercial mortgages you would just never be able to
get on that top top page the massive massive massive players that just absolutely smashing smithereens and again I I figured out the words that all the way for someone to to do it, so my keywords are kind of
the everyman keywords, but that was just through, you know, diligent six months, I’m talking every single day, six months, I probably spent two or three hours looking at all my keywords and being like, right, stop that one, move that one increase that one do that everything was so new, meticulously planned, and, and researched. And it was really was like a real sort of mission of mine to get those keywords. Exactly. And I have to sort of forfeit some really good keywords. And because I just couldn’t, I couldn’t play in that, that sort of arena. And to keep my cost per click down. Yeah,
no, absolutely. So how, how advances you’re going to geek out a little bit how advances you like you’re sort of training and knowledge are you like, looking at things like your quality scores and things like that?
And again, now No, but then yes,
if you want I can I can load it up while we’re talking if you want and I can give you
Yeah, well, I’m sort of what I want to get as much value out of us as possible but I don’t want to give you to give away all your secret so see you so I mean, I obviously want to know what what keywords you are all are going after, and how that because commercial mortgages looks like we’ve got five or just in a five and a half thousand searches a month
and this is sem rush tell me I could look into Google sometimes different messing about so just under seven quid a click on on that. But if I go into Google ads,
we can see what Google says
yes. A quite a lot of volume for commercial mortgages and have not really we’re not we do a lot of like ready stuff. We do a lot of business finance. We don’t have a commercial mortgage clients who I haven’t had an inquiry for it
last year, I don’t think so. First, I’m, I’m looking at these other numbers
more volume than I thought it would be. Yeah,
there’s this huge volume for it. And because, and again, most of the time, people are searching for commercial mortgages and they don’t mean commercial mortgages. And so, you know, there’s, there’s certain words that you can use and certain phrases that you can use and that kind of
you can, you can sort of bamboozle people in there as well, you know,
absolutely. You want to speak the language of your customer,
they’re just buying a commercial property or aware, I guess, things like is it like, literally offices, warehouse shops? Is it that sort of? Yeah, yeah,
exactly. That, yeah,
so I guess the, is it more question based people that you’re finding luck with it? Like, how do I get a mortgage for a warehouse? Is it that kind of staff or? Yeah,
my mom, what, what would someone who had a commercial Mojo needed a commercial mortgage and look at when they weren’t looking
right. Brilliant. Okay, so you’re when people are looking for the actual property of sounds you’re getting in front of them? Yeah, yeah,
we can get properties and all the things that people might be searching all while they’re looking for commercial mortgages and things like that. Yeah, yeah, that’s that sort of thing and raises a good search sort of 10 anyway and then you know, you can you can sort of go on the complete other end of the scale and do 100% loan to value and commercial mortgages tone the traffic on that yeah technically you know, people would say well I don’t I can’t do 100% loan to value and bought that’s still a client and you still you still want to talk to that client because you know who doesn’t want 100%
we’ve got similar thing with guaranteed car finance there’s so much volume on it you cannot no one can guarantee cough on it so we want to rank for it organically SEO
you know you want that traffic because that is someone you just need to educate them
okay i’m not funny any volume on the hundred percent maybe has got the percent mark in there but
hundred it’s just 100
ok cool so
we’ve got you know we’ve got about 5000 people looking at commercial mortgages so we got hundred LTV commercial
once we felt like you said although we’re giving away some secrets here It took us six months is not one of these things you can
yeah ask ask me what those keywords appear on and what the percentages upon phones versus compu as
those words to us because those words the more they work better at certain periods then they do other periods no no absolutely the the way that I advertise and and what I actually do advertise puts me it doesn’t matter if I’m at the bottom of that page they will click me and they will be
like hey right brilliant now you’re talking my language definitely be is we have this kind of misconception with with with clients a lot that the keyword isn’t everything is like less than half the battle so yeah, absolutely your ads I’m I’m really intrigued because we’ve we’ve found a massive shift in like our clients spend from Google over to Facebook. So majority of our mortgage leads are on on Facebook and a lot of our stuff. But I’m my background was originally I was a Google boy for
1012 my world. I mean, I’m doing this for like 15 years. I guess I’m going to Google boy for that fanboy. for that long,
your Google gentleman
with the word one gray hair, I found this one. And yeah,
that’s one thing I think people struggle with. Because when we were talking about quality scores earlier, fill that don’t know you get it’s not like a standard auction that could essentially pay less than your competitors. If you’ve got quality score of 10 out of 10, one of the biggest kind of factors is having your keyword in your headline. But now you’ve got like multiple headlines. Now there’s like three, these are just be one, there’s now three. So you have got room to be creative. So I’m really interested to hear on how you’re being creative, then really confidently said, doesn’t matter where I am, people are going to click on me. So what what what we’re doing
okay, so the thing that really changed it for me, kind of wasn’t really anything to do with being smart on Google. And it was to do with me being smart on where I chose to work. And so I was approached by and a lead buyer who wanted to buy some leads off of me, I sold him some leads and and He then said, Hey, would you like to come and work for me and on my
network as it as it were? And and I said,
Okay, and I was pregnant at the time. And I was like, Oh, I didn’t know I didn’t really want to start brokering and and he was like, No, no, come on, we’ll, we’ll just try it out. We’ll try outcome work your leads on to me, and so I did, and that’s b2b finance. So that’s actually where i, where i broke ground, and now with b2b finance, and, and so their USP which, which changed the game was they charge a broker fee, right?
So no Brooke fees. Brilliant. So and then using that front and center on your ad, you’re fine. Okay, amazing.
Sometimes the best things are the simplest on the
And then I suppose you know, then that that person is like looking at brokers as well. And if even if they’ve spoke to a broker, and even if they’ve clicked on all the three at the top and looked at other brokers, you’ve got a USP there, where the other people are probably saying, oh, we’re charged 500 quid or whatever it is, yeah,
I tend to get the second time round searches. So they’ll go on Google, they’ll search they’ll find number one click, and they’ll click on and they’ll bring them up and they’ll say, Hi, I’ve got this property. And you know, it’s this much money and they go, fantastic. Okay, I broke fees. 1%. And the client goes
1%. That’s so much money. Yeah. And then they’ll be back on Google. And they’ll just do a little search and they’ll just scroll back. Oh, this one has no broker fees. Yeah, click and they’ll go straight through. And so that’s why I tend to find that I get a lot of the 1 million plus inquiries
of 1 million plus inquiries. Yeah, amazing. You’re obviously still getting your kickback from the lender then. So then I assume how it works for you as a broker is still a really good deal because you’re getting much bigger GCI mortgages. Yeah, you’re not charging the fee, but you’re getting decent commissions off that so you’re probably better off anyway. Do you think that’s absolutely
absolutely. And you get you get much more client and inquiries through when you are, there is no reason why that client wouldn’t come to you. Because you are you’re not just the cheapest, you have no broker fee. So people just say, how do you get away with it and say, Well, you know, we we get we get profit off of the lender and we found is that question yeah, the volume we were we find it to be golden moments. And is it is it an angel saying there’s not an age old say, but it’s what my dad always says. I don’t I’m not going to swear. But he swears when he says it and but it’s what’s 100% of people? Yeah, and you know, you can charge you broke up and you’ll get 100% of you you broke up
somewhere else you get 100% of nothing. Yeah so kind of yeah it kind of works for me and James b2b finances a genius I think so yeah we’re not with that idea no broke fees and and you know that’s why we’re now at a stage where we are overwhelmed with inquiries way too many inquiries amazing
there’ll be a lot of brokers that are thinking this incredible
you’re overwhelmed with inquiries you need some good brokers are you guys looking for good I well a stupid question you guys must be looking for good people
we are yet desperately looking for new people and this year we that there’s a rule and you’ll understand this and there’s a there’s a there’s a sweet spot with leads you have to spend this much money to get this conversion and cost yeah and for me to spend that much creates this many leads but we can only service this many leads so there’s there’s all these but just you know I sell I sell some of them and and I’m always happy to sell leads to people and I’m just on a purely transactional basis I don’t do kickbacks we just do transactional lead salad yeah and then there are that are inquiries that just don’t go they don’t get answered
so many brokers that I speak to the main reason we set up our Facebook group was because there we time we didn’t have anything to offer like the self employed broker working on the road where their network or whoever they’re working for says sorry going you gotta get your own leads yeah we can help us I mean that’s well what’s led to the podcast here so amazing that we’ve got some advice they can buy some leads for you or they can come and join you as well
yeah absolutely and with with the selling of leads as well just because it is purely a means to an end to me and I have no minimum orders I have no contracts and if you’re not committed to buy anything care what bring me on a Thursday and say you want three needs tomorrow send it really it really is just a broker helping another broker out really and as well that because all these companies that sell leads and you know,
we’re we’re we’re very different from them. But being able to do that to someone who is working those leads is a broker understands that let you say I can ring you up I don’t have to I don’t have to buy 100 of them I don’t have to buy 50 of them are 25 or whatever the minimum order is very exclusive
I don’t know how to send them to more than one person
you know I genuinely at once they come in I have a system where they just fly back out of my I have no way of keeping them and sort of yeah billing them elsewhere and and to be honest it’s just pop it’s not a good thing for a client anyway and they are about the fall from the experience so I just want to do it for client I have 50 phone calls when I click one button before we
know it is it is all for me that’s why we that’s why we don’t we don’t do we don’t like sell leads especially some more than the one person because it’s just horrible isn’t it?
Okay brilliant so I love how pull this is this is yet obviously it’s quite complicated as well
have you ever tried this in like anything else in terms of the know broken feet because we’ve got obviously that we’ve got commercial sitting at work in wrestling as well like, you know, multiple images and things like that. I know there are a lot that don’t charge anyway but this
I’ve never tried I’ve actually never tried know broke fees on ready I do have a half portals for lead gen on residential mortgages, life insurance, invoice finance, in development, finance and and bridging yeah so I set up all of those followers I’ve got the website as well up there but I didn’t turn them on yes I don’t have the capacity to deal with any of the inquiries that that would come through and and but now I’ve never tried the notebook fear I’m ready never try that. Yeah,
well we weren’t working with our clients we obviously don’t get the choice of whether they charge a fee or not that’s I’ve just googled remortgage not the greatest killers, it’s got, you know, quite broad, but no one is saying anything about broker fees. They’re saying like Cc Cc Jays, and Paul credit, welcome,
say, thousand sessions say,
let’s try mortgage
application or something like that. Also, another another little tool, I totally feel alone We’re talking about I forgot I installed it the other day. There’s a Chrome plugin called keywords anywhere and you get all the keyword volumes and the costs in the right hand side of your Google. If I share my screen with you. Actually, I can show you
a semi useful Google Chrome extension. Don’t use Chrome.
Do you know you should be using using cry?
Can you see that on the on the right, yeah, so yeah, that’s what it does. Essentially, I’m going to have to go back because we’re getting a warning that it doesn’t like me doing video and everything like that. Right. Okay, so we digress. But let’s have a look. Find the best deal for you. It’s all the kind of standard stuff on Google.
No one’s ever really Robin for the residential mortgages you have. They know
because residential mortgages have cash back maybe people don’t think about actually the impact that know Brophy residential mortgages are worth considerably less than commercial mortgages, because you are talking about neutral like a 1% proxy, especially, I mean, James Booker, from b2b has negotiated way higher fees for all of the products. And anyway, but the, you know, when you’re doing like, a 60 grand mortgage, and it’s got like a point four, five, you know, it’s
bought a while. I mean, I challenge that personally, because I think if you’re doing a residential mortgage, and you’re not doing a full suite of life insurance products, and making another two grand on top of it, you’re not really doing the right thing anyway. So is it worth not getting a proxy of 200 pounds broker fee of 200 pounds or 400, whatever it is, and to make, you know, an extra two grand Yeah, yeah, you’re gonna get everyone that they’re looking for. They may be I mean, obviously, it works because it works for us. Yeah,
no, absolutely brilliant. Okay, you doing anything special, the different when, so we’ve got the address, we see the Nova, I can feel you reinforcing that on your landing page, are you using any like landing page software, or if you just got your website that’s the site or
just a website and it does the first thing you see when you London is we don’t try to break free and then sort of the ethos as to why we don’t try to Berkeley which I’ve kind of just sort of transplanted across. And from, from the b2b ethos, em, and it just sort of x and I actually give them examples. I say, Did you know if you’re, you know, if you borrow in this moment, you’re going to be around this much to the broadcast and chop shop, you know, I’m sure broken hate me.
absolutely. I mean, well, if you’ve got a surplus, if you’re hiring more brokers in if you’re selling leads that you’ve already generated, then it’s obviously you’re doing something right is amazing. Okay, brilliant. Have you got any other tips in terms of if they’re, if we decide we don’t want to buy leads of you, if we if we don’t want to join you, I really want to do this myself. We got any other advice on you know, you obviously did some courses and things like that? How much time has that kind of stepped out? Have you got any other ideas, that kind of tips and
I just go on the courses for sort of the and more of their money, what do they try to do this, right.
And it was, however, and I don’t think I learned anything that I couldn’t upload on youtube for free. Yeah, and what it’s really difficult, I think sometimes you need that, you know, take me a little lunch and go in and sit in and being at school. And it did the environment certainly did help. But also trust you got and, and analyze, analyze, analyze, analyze, analyze, every move that’s made on Google is telling you something every single tiny Penny spend, if you can save a penny somewhere else, it all adds up. And that’s how you get down to incredibly low cost per clicks. And incredibly low lead costs. And, and then don’t add the pick the phone up to Google,
I totally agree on all of those points. Absolutely. So 1.1 know it Tom, our he’s our he used to be a marketing manager for a mortgage company. And we used to work together that come out, he he employed me or engineers or contracts that he’s just done a video actually about doing those testing and things he’s done quite, he’s done it on this table, that she’s got the the cards and he’s talking about all the ads and the click through rates and conversion rates, and things like that, to help explain that a bit more. So I’ll drop the link to everyone. So they kind of can get that visual representation representation of what we’re talking about that
and then yeah, there’s also
you’ve got a, you started a LinkedIn group way because you want to help get bit more this, obviously, everyone’s gonna listen to the podcast, but the tone, you’ve got a LinkedIn group where you’re giving out basically advice on the lead gen in terms of like, career wise as well. He tell us a little bit of that. Yeah.
So and it’s, it’s a new group, and it was it was about from demand from overwhelming public demand. People just wanting to know, clients’ actually, who buy off of me. And the way that I advertise this group was, aren’t you just sick of giving me money? Don’t you want to learn how to do this yourself?
I’m for some people, and I’ll be quite honest, I have tried to show them how to do it. And they’ve gone Oh, I got just please just keep taking my money because I really
like okay. But at least now, you know, they appreciate how difficult it is to generate leads. And it really isn’t just a case of just, you know, putting 50 up on on Google and they call and thousands of pounds sometimes to Well, no, not sometimes it’s thousands of pounds to set up a Google account and, and get enough data so that you can statistically look at it and say, This is how much it costs to generate a lead my leads my clients, and it does cost thousands of pounds. But if people want to, you know, pick my brains and that’s that’s kind of what the groups for and so it’s called mortgage careers. UK, you can just search on LinkedIn and find me it is very new, just running through the people who have requested to join it now. And I’m just going to kind of have it as a bit of a forum. If you want to ask questions about mortgages, or if you want to ask questions about leads or even if you get an you know, an inquiry that you just can’t handle because you’re going somewhere and you want someone else in the group to you know, pick it up for you.
I’m hoping it’s gonna be a bit of a bit of a social nice little community community means
love it. I have one last question for you. It’s a bit of a geeky one. Do you do any remarketing so you got any ads running to people that have been on your site and didn’t convert
now have an amazing friend called Chad dollars who will probably hear this super sonically somewhere in the country and I’m not really really targeted. He goes on about it incessantly. He’s like, need to you need to do it. Now. Identity is the honest answer a damn get any more clients
anymore like I seriously can’t handle Yeah, taking any more. I think once we get to a level where we can manage what we have that the minute Yeah, then I’ll refine it. But right now where like
press any buttons. Again,
I’m so used to talking to people that want more leads that it feels we’re talking to someone that doesn’t have the right absolutely love it. Okay, brilliant. So can we get some websites for me? So that so I might going so if I want to buy the lead. So Microsoft connecting with you on LinkedIn and just chatting with you on there? Or do I go by the website? Yeah,
I mean, LinkedIn is probably the best way to talk to me because it’s on my mobile, it’s, it’s completely separate to client emails, which can sometimes get a bit messy. And but you can find me on LinkedIn, Jody Stevenson and ci and pay and there’s myself look and go somewhere and in a black white photo, but that’s me. And so you can message me on there, that’s fine. And or you can you can my mobile numbers on there as well. And my email address is info at Sunnybrook group.co.uk, which is so sugar you November, November, I VA group, okay. Okay. And you can email me there. And, and I’m also having your group on Facebook to you all. Yeah, but I’m under my married name on there. She’s Judy Jamison. So the confusion there by profession, my stage name and my stage name on LinkedIn. Brilliant.
I love it in that though, but
yeah, you know, message message, message message. Anyone? You know, you’ll you’ll end up somewhere near me. Yeah,
brilliant. Absolutely. Fantastic. Brilliant. Thank you so much. I love how simple some of those things where that although it took you six months to get there. When it clicks. It clicks as amazing. And I think a lot of people will be inspired and excited because so many people speak to like, this is their biggest frustration, just getting people on the phone. So I’m great. Thank you so much to be able to come on and talk so honestly about it as well. Really appreciate it. Excellent. All right. Thanks very much. We’re going to say goodbye. So they will have it. I hope you learned a lot and you are kind of excited that someone else is doing this themselves. They don’t need a marketing agency to do it. They don’t need a pay per click expert. They’ve gone out there. They’ve learned everything themselves. They believe it’s all out there for free on YouTube and podcasts like this. So if you enjoyed the interview, you want to see those interviews live. I go live every Friday at 1230. You’ll also get see talking and live on a Wednesday lunchtime as well. That is the financial services lead generation group on Facebook. If not, I will see you next week on the podcast. And I would really appreciate it if you did subscribe if you did rate and review the podcast it will just help me get more viewers and put more time until I can get bigger and better and bolder guests not that God was an amazing but we can also get some big players in the marketing industry as well on if we got the viewership. So thanks very much for listening and I will see you next time.