016 – Roger Edwards – International Financial Services Marketing Speaker

016 - Roger Edwards - International Financial Services Marketing Speaker
016 - Roger Edwards - International Financial Services Marketing Speaker

I saw Roger Edwards Speak at the YouPreneur Summit in November 2019, I was blown away by the talk. There’s real synergy in Roger’s approach to simplifying marketing and having this person to person approach.

Roger’s Website: www.rogeredwards.co.uk

Rog Vlog: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP5Fk9xGkFRIkotv2HziTUw

Rogers’ Podcast: http://mpafpodcast.libsyn.com/webpage

Hello and welcome back to the lead generation for financial services a podcast and I have got the one and only Roger Edwards with me today whose ex financial services so one that I saw speaking at the openness summit in November so I’m absolutely delighted to be able to twist your arm to to get you on Roger, how you doing? I’m great Alex, thanks very much for inviting me on your show. No worries and I just as I said, twist twist. Twist your arm. It just reminded me of your your background in this sort of the combat training the mixed martial arts does that had that vision of you actually twisting my arm?

Yes, absolutely. So I think people will be fascinated with that. But probably our listeners be more fascinated with your background in financial services. I was wondering if we could just give people a little bit of a taste of your back.

grown and then then what you’re doing now if that’s all right, yeah, absolutely. I mean I left University wanting to be a marketing person

I was interested in marketing all the way through school in fact my English teacher read at read a book out to isn’t an English lesson. I can remember probably when I was about 12 and it was all about advertising and ever since then I wanted to do marketing and but I came out of university and for the summer after I’d done my degree, I was filling out an application forms and trying to apply for jobs and my father at the time was was the director of a financial services brokerage in Bournemouth which is actually quite a long way from where I lived in Blackpool. So I spent that summer working at that financial advisor firm in Bournemouth and we just we learn the ropes a little bit about financial services and investments and that sort of thing. And now

As a result of that, I applied to a few financial services firms as well as the other companies I was going for. And in the end was offered a job working within the marketing department of a financial services company that made the name of that company was prolific life and pensions, which was based in Kendall so I’ve I’ve moved around all sorts of really interesting is and I and I, I started it prolific and effectively worked my way through various marketing roles starting at prolific as a marketing assistant and worked my way up to product manager and product marketing manager had a product marketing then overall marketing director and I did spend a little time as managing director of two brands, Scottish Providence, and which probably everybody’s heard of ray which was, which was one that I was involved in the startup and that’s about six years ago since I left what I call big corporate.

I I guess Alex I was getting a bit fed up with the financial services corporates attitude to marketing to be perfectly to the marketing communications element I was singing stuff like video becoming more popular I was seeing people launching blogs and podcasts and I was sitting there thinking you know what we could really do some interesting stuff here

and actually engage with a lot more financial advisors and and then and customers by embracing all this emerging digital technology and it was the usual Oh the shutters come down the compliance word gets mentioned and before you know it you’ve got a whole range of excuses as to why you can’t actually do any of this you know and and in the end I thought you know what I’ve been around I’ve been doing this corporate role for over 20 years they decided to do another of the famous restructurings that financial

Yeah without and I decided well, that’s that’s a good opportunity Actually, let’s let’s leave set myself up as a marketing consultant tap into that 20 years of marketing experience and actually work with companies, smaller companies, probably that really do want to experiment with video and social media and digital to grow their businesses. And as it turned out, it’s hindsight. It’s a wonderful thing. I wish I had a lot a lot earlier, a lot of fun over the last six years doing this. And then as you as you would expect, quite a lot of the clients that I’ve worked with, have the financial services lean to them as well simply because of the of the of the industry I worked in and the network that I built up over that time. Absolutely. And I think people get it when are people like working with marketers that get compliance and can get the industry as well so we found like nourishing down in there is how

sort of get get businesses? Well, I think I think compliance can be used as an excuse to a genuine block. You know, a lot of people will say, Oh, we you know, I remember having a conversation with one financial services company that wanted as a social media strategy putting together and the marketing director said to me, You do realize that every single tweet will have to be signed off and go through the compliance process. And, and that the turnaround that their KPI for the turnaround and biases might 48 hours. So I’m saying if you wanted to reply to a financial advisor, sort of at financial advisor, thanks for that, or thank you that’s got to be compliant as it everything we can’t risk it. And I did have a sort of epiphany moment when I had that conversation with that marketing director. I started thinking Do you know what you don’t see social media as a social interaction you simply see it as another marketing channel and

advertising platform like water, a TV and because you’ve got that mindset that it’s just about advertising naturally you think everything has to be complied and dotted and T’s and everything when in fact if you if you understand that it is a two way conversation and it could just be

I’ve had great service from Scottish widows. Thank you, Mr. I favor saying that, that that’s not financial promotion, it doesn’t mean there is but I think if you have that mindset that it is all about promotion, then obviously you’re going to put the barriers of Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think the bigger they are, the more worried they get about other things as well found some of the smaller companies and more certainly nowadays are much more adventurous and want to do as much as much as possible. Yeah, but doesn’t surprise me that you had a director getting a bit worried about

that sort of thing,


What sort of you’re obviously speaking a lot now as well. You doing more of this speaking stuff than you are this strategy and coaching and things what’s like today looking at probably about about 40% speaking, 60% consultancy and I used to do loads of public speaking earlier in my career and I guess the more senior I got within the companies, the less of it I did when I left the corporate I realized you know, I shower I really do enjoy

and I made it one of my own personal goals to get back into it and to get myself back on to some stages and, and at some events and I guess what I what I had to do is is try to find an angle and all through my career in in marketing. I’ve always been obsessed with simplicity

and obviously working in an industry like financial services which can be interesting.

complicated, they’re lonely and its products and IT services but also in its language that’s used it was quite a good obsession to have. And I’ve ever since I’ve resurrected my speaking curious it’s really just been about what are the things that make marketing too complicated that either put companies small companies like small financial advisory firms what puts them off from doing marketing because it might be a complicated Can I help make that simple or you know the actual process of marketing, maybe writing a blog post or filming a video that seems complicated Can I help people simplify that so this theme of keeping marketing simple emerged as I as I sort of talked to more and more people and the the, the speeches that I tend to do now focus on helping people put together simple marketing strategies without any of the complicated academic terminology that you might hear if you went to a university things like Maslow’s hierarchy.

needs Boston grids and the four Ps of marketing or is it the 70s or the 13 piece or however many people

and, you know, just keep it simple. And, and, and these messages, you know, seem to resonate with people because they keep asking me to come back and do the talks now. So, I mean, I really enjoyed it. I think it was, it was great.

So I wanted to kind of stay back on

you mentioned that conversation I think it was when you first had that epiphany and there was a Was it a director, marketing director that is a job Awesome job and I have forgotten the actual words that they use something ridiculous I can’t remember this was this was when I was really early in my career and Okay, I’ve been invited along to a strategy session a marketing strategy session and I think at the time was probably only just in the reed to make no not really meant to can contribute and they bought

This big consultancy firm and it was somebody like Price Waterhouse Coopers but it wasn’t Yeah, we have somebody of that sort of L and this guy came in and we had all the highlights from our company sat around this table. We were in summer off off site location. It was caught some nice country house that they’ve hired for a week to do this. And this guy came in and he was like, it’s swallowed a management speak dictionary, that’s everything that came out of his mouth was just, you know, that management speak claptrap that you hear and it culminated. We’ve gone through all these we don’t SWOT analysis isn’t PEST analysis isn’t Boston grids and all those things that I’ve mentioned. And we put together a proposition and as closing remark was something like we need to finesse the paradigm to achieve maximum alacrity, and I was sitting there burying my head in my hands and

And of course all these other management types in the room were laughing this up and we’ve got a finesse the paradigm you know they go home with my wife we’re going to finesse this house

now thinking what the hell does alacrity mean

obviously this was in the days before you had a mobile phone. You could look it up on Google it straight later

alacrity must be some posh way of saying clear but in fact I’ve got I can’t even remember what it means now but it’s nothing to do with what he said it but what he was saying is we need to refine this product so we need to refine this model but yeah I did to say it in this management’s be gobbledygook jargon and I guess that was that was the first sort of sowing of the seeds of what became the Korea long obsession we’re trying to root out complexity it not only in the language of this us but also in the product you know, I was always the one with a red pen crossing out passive sentence.

And writing an active language. And yeah, we’re condensing paragraphs down and doing things simply. And you know, financial services is absolutely rife with complexity. Even now, I mean, all industries have their own complexities and their own language. But financial services, particularly is still in certain places extremely loaded with jargon loaded with it doesn’t engage customers, in fact, it probably enrages them. Yeah. No, absolutely. I mean, that was kind of the couple of things that I took from the talk was that your enraging customers with the kind of that jargon but also with the constant communication I think you touched on it earlier when that marketing director saw social media is just like a one way traffic Yeah, what’s it to these things go hand in hand them when you’re sort of first but in your strategy

get there? Do you think about the simplification of just I’ve just made simplification a big word.

The irony

do you look at simplifying everything first? And then looking at how to communicate or what which or do you do if you’ve got like a brand new client the doors it’s a very good question. And I like to make the process simple all the way through

and and if you make the process simple all the way through, then your end result should be simple by default. But it doesn’t always work like that. And going back to what you just said there about some of the the the problems with marketing one of the conversations that I will have with people the ring me up and they’ll say something like, we want you to help us with Twitter marketing, or we want you to help us with video marketing. And my question back to them will be something like Will you tell me about your strategy, your marketing strategy and sometimes that’s though we’re not interested in strategy.

We just want to do video,


And of course, that’s when the alarm bells go off. Because one of my big problems and it’s probably because I’m an old getting up in around for a while is that today when people say marketing, they really mean communications, they really mean advertising or or social media or email or thought or digital or whatever, whereas marketing’s much much much more than communications. But we do seem to have gotten ourselves into this place where people just think it’s the communications but so actually when somebody rings me up and says we want to do video marketing, and I say well, what about the strategy that they don’t really know what I’m talking about? Because to them, it’s just about the communication. So I like to work with people that understand that marketing is much much more than just the communication it’s working out who your customer is, you know, be becoming obsessed with working

who your customer is because it’s only when you know your customer that you can understand the issues that they face in their lives. And you can identify how your product service, whatever it is, can solve their problem, hopefully better than everybody else’s. And once you know that stuff, then yes, you can go and communicate via video, Twitter, whatever it might be, but if you haven’t got that stuff already mapped out and agreed and simple then your communications just hopeless because you’ll just be talking about nothing and sometimes it’s quite hard to get that across as well. Okay, I won’t use the word strategy Tell me who your customer as well men and women between the ages of 30 and five years I will more or less everybody that you know, oh, yeah. And where do they live and what you know, you know, what’s the income and that sort of thing. They haven’t gone through this process of properly pinpointing who the customer is

is so. So that’s one of the things that I tried to do. And, and, and maybe it’s because strategy has this again complex tag to it. You know if you go to a university and do marketing you’ll talk about customer orientation you’ll talk about research

segmentation targeting positioning strategic goals you’ll talk about product price place distribution brand people call that stand it sounds complicated and actually it’s really just about answering those three questions that are sort of alluded to who’s the customer? What’s their problem? And how do you solve that problem better than anybody else stick a goal on top of that I want to sell a million pounds worth of business and you’ve got yourself Master Jay. Once you’ve done that you can go away and start building the videos and the emails and the digital and all of that. And I think once people get into that frame of mind, then they understand that marketing is a lot more than that.

Just the communication and and that’s really what I try to help people with. Absolutely what I do that kind of helps me and I only got that from doing sort of running the business for a little while is that now when I do things like the podcast and when I do videos or I imagine that I’m talking to so I kind of see like a couple of

ideal customers. One of them’s like a self employed broker. And then I remember the, the first one that I spoke to, and imagine I’m speaking that my my webcam here is that is that

and then when I’m doing the more the business stuff, I have got a marketing manager that I I just literally imagine I’m speaking just to that person. And then I feel that that will apply to everyone else. And then because we used to, we didn’t used to be industry specific. We used to do lead generation for everyone to come back and find it so so much easier just having those you know, industry specific and then those sort of two

People that are my customers. And then it just made everything so much easier rather than any company in the world that needs leads.

And when you focus then you, you can become specialists and you learn, you know, again, we use the compliance where you can understand those problems that they haven’t, you can help me. So it’s when you try to be all things to all men or women that you start to become too general. And you you start to you start to fail.

And yeah, I think that the other thing you alluded to before, as well as the constant bombardment that you see in

Maybe, maybe not, there was a fabulous tweet that I saw yesterday I can’t remember you might even have been yourself somebody said how what how often is too often to send out an email and the punch line of this tweet was it’s okay financial advisors once a once a month newsletter is fine, it’s the it’s the six emails a day

That’s that’s the problem and I think that probably in financial services we haven’t got as much of a problem with bombardment them then some industries, do you I sign up for a lots of email list purely like to see what people are doing. And some of them they do send your six emails a day and you just end up hitting the the big red subscribe button. Yeah, we’re sending somebody an email, an email newsletter once a month. Wow, that’s fine. That’s absolutely fine. Nobody’s I don’t think anybody’s going to get enraged about that. But you’ve got to be sure you if you know your customer, if you know who they are, then you’ll understand where the boundaries lie with how you communicate with them. And that’s when you probably understand where the lines are on you. And, you know, not to cross them. Yeah, no, absolutely. I think one thing that’s helped as well as having like a bit of a community because we can kind of ask them and kind of their stuff.

To us ask us now as well. So not only are we getting knowing what they need communicating to, but also how off that

as well. But that’s something that you can’t just do tomorrow.

It’s taken. I think we’ve had our Facebook group for here, probably year and a half. It’s one of those things, especially some of these things, you can’t literally you need to talk to people at all. So I guess what advice would you give to someone because we get a lot of phone calls from

mortgage brokers that are literally just qualified and they’ve never run their own business before.

And they probably are in that mindset where I want to go after everyone. So watch as much businesses as possible. How do they find out who their ideal customer is, if they’ve not done it before? Is it a case of just try everything and then or how would you deal with that kind of situation again, I mean, if you assume that again, you could

say, well, any black, what’s the average age people take out mortgages these days, late 20s, early 30s apps. So you could or you could say, well, my client, my potential clients is anybody in the UK between the ages of, let’s say, 28 and 50,

and we’ll go after all of those. And actually, that’s, that’s probably not the right thing to do. Because you’re not going to be able to communicate with that many people unless you’ve got a

ridiculously big marketing and advertising budget. So the first thing to do is to set will say, let’s see if we can make that target market a lot smaller and obviously all the first things you can do as well. I’m a I’m a mortgage broker in Baltimore. I’m a mortgage broker in Liverpool, then Liverpool is the is the area so we’ll focus on Liverpool I suppose that’s a bit basic, but you could start saying, well, we’re actually going to specialize in first time buyers again.

Get helping them get onto the property ladder. So what are the unique problems that first time buyers have and that’s start start listening to what first time buyers are saying get yourself on Twitter search for terms like first time buyer first time by a mortgage and see what people are saying. And you might be quite surprised by how open and honest people are on a medium like Twitter I think Twitter is one of the best research tools there is if you write if you put the right search terms and Twitter’s it’s going to give you a gold mine of conversations that people are having. And then you can start to identify the problems that those particular people the first time buyers might have. And you can start to say what, as a mortgage broker in Bolton, I specialize in helping these first time buyers with their specific first time buying problems and I solve those steps but specific first time buying problems in this way and

This way is different than other mortgage brokers. And then I’ll start putting adverts out. Maybe

talk to people on Twitter, the do contents on the website, do some blogs here, 10 reasons why first time, buyers find it hard to get a mortgage. And here are 10 reasons why we can help all these attend solutions. And and you just don’t really start focusing in on a particular area. And I think that if you did that, you’d pick up some leads, you’d start to develop your business, you’d start helping people get on the property ladder. And then after a year or so two years, you might do another strategic review of what you’re doing and say, Well, you know what some of our people have been, I have been with us for two years now. They’re not first time buyers anymore, but they’re still customers. Maybe they’re thinking of moving house and then maybe you just change your proposition of it. So you’re appealing not only to first time buyers, but also to people who are thinking of moving on

But I think if you start specific and understand, and most importantly, listen to those people, that’s when you start to see the sort of the golden, the golden nuggets that you can use to make yourself stand out from everybody else that’s doing it.

Yeah, I think that’s great advice. Because one of the things with mortgages that pretty much all got access to pretty much the same lenders and products and there it’s really hard to differentiate but I had a guy called Gary deaths interviewed him last week. So not all not sure what order have been in the podcast, but he specialized in self employed people, having them get a mortgage and he’s literally written the book on it, you can buy on Amazon and I saw on LinkedIn. Someone said, Oh, does anyone know anyone that can help me I am a business I’m self employed and these get a mortgage and it was a few people mentioned a couple of brokers and they said I’m sure I can help you call me and then there’s loads of people saying speak to Gary das weeks ago. Yes. And then Gary came on and said hey, I specialized

Self implies here’s the link to my book is our website. We specialize in that. And I was like that guy’s 100% going to choose Gary das because he just differentiate it’s probably got the same skills and can get the same deal maybe as everyone else but who would who would you choose if you are in the customer shoes, but I guess people are sort of afraid of losing opportunities aren’t know that’s the biggest reasons probably why I didn’t do it early enough in terms of negotiating people worry about it, but I don’t know anyone that’s done it that’s regretted it I’ve never met anyone. And sometimes the the opportunity comes from maybe just I almost said a management speak thing that I always say out of the box bus stop for

some sometimes it’s like, like, if you think about a mortgage broker is thinking, you know, when I go back to those three questions I asked who’s the custom what’s their problem? Well, the problem is

People want need money they need a mortgage to buy a house so most mortgage brokers going to be thinking that’s the problem I’m solving and then it’s really difficult to say how do I do that different than everybody else as you say is as got access to the same thing so one of the ways yes you can you can specialize in the in the nation I think the self employed on these fantastic you can even go even you could narrow it down further and say I am a mortgage broker specializing in self employed fitness instructors for example, my tie into the body combat thing there and and I think that sometimes you what, what are the associated problems. A great example that I picked up was I was sat next to a dentist at a conference and we had the same conversation and he was saying, you know, when I think about what is the problem that people have? Well, they’ve got they need to fill in which they’ve got tooth decay or their teeth are gray and they want them veneer to make them shine.

Those are the main problems. But the problem is every single dentist in the UK can help that problem. And what he thought is, you know what, one of the biggest problems people have with dentist is their shit scared them.

They don’t like going to the dentist because it’s just not a pleasant experience. So this guy invested in making his dental practice surgery and the environment feel more like a health spa. So you went, you went in, and the waiting room wasn’t your typical, you know, loads of moldy old chairs that bought from a rummage sale and and lots of my feet and magazines. They actually had it like a really nice or sitting room and the reception people war instead of those sort of stark white sort of smokes. They actually want the sorts of things you would expect people in health spas to where your past or calls and stuff like that and you know that they made the place just nice and they used to get that

They give the people sitting in the chest stress balls to squeeze whilst they’re

having their teeth drilled

and this guy focused in on solving the fear problem. And he is he’s become one of the most sought after dentist in his particular area because people can go anywhere to get their teeth whitened or their fillings fill. But this was the guy who made it a more pleasant experience. So some, you know, can you can you sort of think of the equivalent in the mortgage space. One of the other problems that people have with mortgages Can you make a big thing out of you solving that as well as getting them the money and then you suddenly got yourself something that you can shout about and you can talk about and you can mark it right. Definitely. I’m hoping a lot of people will be after the podcast diving onto Twitter

first time or house moving problems I saw there’s like a hashtag or

Something where they’ll be a gold mine of people complaining about a broker for a common theme. I love the idea of someone finding that now and then literally transforming their their website business around it the amazing yummy. Wait and see what it might be able to be the first mortgage broker to have a waiting room with a

chair in the

budget. stressful, stressful. Yeah, well, I think what it looks like at the moment, I can’t remember which bank was doing the first paperless one,

I think it’s going to go down that route. And then there are 10 if you seem like a veto and there’s a current with the other one but it’s like everything feels like it’s moving online because people and then more and more of the brokers that I speak to are just doing everything on the phone rather than doing the house visit feels like going the rest of the way the rest of society is as easy as possible soon we’ll just do it.

are either be an app or something like that now and again it might be a communications thing you might just say you know what most mortgage brokers talk too much jargon to geek so you could become the I’m gonna forget his name now what’s the guy who the the fitness and cookery guy that does 15 second video video yeah weeks is it Joe exactly and that’s it

you could be you could be the mortgage mortgage jargon in 15 seconds guy so 15 seconds as an API API This is what APR means, you know, interest rate this is what interest rates, nice snappy, weird little bit with special effects and stuff. So it doesn’t have to be a financial issue that you’re solving. You can just make your marketing stand out because then then suddenly you become the person who is making mortgages simple in an entertaining way. Yeah, now brilliant.

It feels that I’ve seen a few I’ve seen a few pop up doing videos but no one doing that I love that idea of because his his videos were crazy just chucking the the thing because at that point, Instagram would only let you do 15 seconds. I think that’s what forced him to generate. But it turned out people will love that. That high energy I could see how to do a meal in literally 15 seconds. So yeah, I think that’s definitely what I could never keep up. I keep having to pause it pulls it

drag the 15 seconds out to 30 minutes. So you could actually to cook the recipe. Absolutely. I mean, a great example because it is the Instagram is flooded with. I mean, well, he is the best selling cookbook of all time. He’s not a chef. Yeah, and he’s in the property for the more crowded marketplace then mortgage brokers

and and on Instagram. He was late onto it. He just sort of powered through you don’t have to be on there for ages.

You could literally you find find one thing and Andrew and Pete mentioned it in the same tool just concentrate on that one thing so if that 15 second jargon busting things your thing then just do that and don’t worry about all the other your email newsletters and everything like that just focus on that and see what see what happens and this is sometimes it’s easy to talk yourself out of doing that oh I haven’t got time to do the video well you need to be a BBC or other option you know you can do it quite similar Joe weeks stuff wasn’t a damn great big cameras and lights and everything it was doing on these five own one or whatever iPhone to when he started so you know a lot of the excuses and the compliance one we’ve learned to use our home I’m or I don’t look good on camera. these are these are not reasons not to do it that they’re just excuses really and if you can find something that helps you to stand out that helps you to fix

Customers problem better and different than anybody else’s, then you’ve got yourself a real opportunity to grow your business and make yourself stand out from the crowd. Yeah, absolutely. I think that people are probably bored of me like saying, like people buy from people. So I try and encourage as many people as possible to get on video because you trust people that you meet. So like, the example I use is that since we’ve been doing so much more video, I can’t remember the last time I had to meet a client physically to sign a deal for like a retainer. Whereas before it was every client wanted to meet say, after I’ve saved loads of time already built the report and they’ve already decided they want to work with us. Yeah, because I’ve got that report on autopilot with the video stuff. But I had to do it to get myself an Instagram challenge. So I was like, I’m going to do a one minute video every day for 30 days.

And just get breakthrough the awkwardness yeah then it just did but I didn’t share it with it because I set up a new Instagram account and didn’t tell anyone and then I just did it did it did it and did it and did it and now I just forget I don’t I’m not awkward with the cameras and my friend now I don’t know that I look at it

I’m a mess most of the time but I don’t I don’t feel I’m not second guess it and I do live videos and stuff now I haven’t always done that it was it was really hard to begin with but I just felt like I’m going to smash through that brick wall and I think a lot of people have done this I don’t think many people are naturally

sort of so gifted or comfortable with it everyone has to break free absolutely i mean i’ve been doing loads of videos as well but and I keep them all they’re all on my YouTube channel even the rubbish ones if you go right back to the first video I put up four or five years ago it is dreadful you know the the the this behalf blurred you know the the

Sounds crap. And I’m sort of like a rabbit in a in a headlight. But it’s, it’s what it was. And it’s now I learned a bit more about editing the production’s a little bit better I’ve got a style now that’s developed and people seem to like that too and actually the the blogs that I do if the conferences I speak out I’ve actually let you will their conferences asking me to go and speak at their conferences. So it’s another example of video actually working because it gives people an insight into who you are and it gets them to see you as an individual as well and some other can decide whether they like you enough trust you enough to actually do business with you now absolutely I think it was Chris said he did a little segment on I think it’s like 95% of the work is done behind closed doors and people actually want to see that they want to see the the the struggle I think he comes at it because it just humanizes it.

Doesn’t have to be

blogging, but

mine’s not as good as yours. The I don’t have to meet in any,

you see that? That’s again, one of my failings is I just love to tinker.

When I started blogging, I was using something called Camp Asia to do the editing. Oh yeah. Yeah. Pretty basic software to be perfectly honest. And about 12 months ago, I decided to upgrade to premiere pro which isn’t a day

this is this is just got millions and millions and millions of options and things not watching YouTube videos to explain how to do this and how to do that. And before I know I’m cloning myself, so I’ve got to have me on the screen and

and it’s not that hard. No, no, it’s not that hard, but it makes people think wow.

Not I did one. I did one recently where I’m stood talking to myself in the mirror and say, I recorded it. So the first half of the video, the me in the mirror was genuinely the reflection. So it was a thing that I did. And then I super impose a separate bit over the mirror. So it looked like the me in the mirror was actually doing something different. And to the side. And I hope people writing the email saying, How on earth did you do that?

You could actually just Google it, or you find out but again, it’s going back to the Joe weeks thing, or, or whatever it might be. It’s just trying to find some little things like that, that make you stand out, and young people will remember you for it. Absolutely. Is it Seth Godin calls it the purple cow purple? Yes. Yeah, you see cows all the time, you never know it’s one but if you see a purple one it’s it’s it’s remarkable and you remember it so it is so how does the space how’d you come up with original I feel if you have a finance board, you know.

You’re You’re a numbers person you’re not you’re not a marketer you’re How do you I suppose it’s the impossible question how do you think of something you can switch you can take ideas from so there was a another guy and see the other way he did a video and it was his key ingredients for business success and he was baking a cake whilst doing the video which sounds rubbish but it’s brilliant but I guess you can take something don’t copy another broke because you’ll get found out and that’s a bit rubbish be I suppose you can say inspiration from another industry Carney Absolutely. I mean again it’s sometimes it’s this it’s taking the idea and then just sort of

doing that little sideways leap or whatever what one of the things that I tend to do is what I want to think about this particular subject is that there’s a there’s a fabulous website called answer the public I think it’s answer the public comm or it could be.org after check.

And, and you can put a term in their mortgage or hairdressing or motorcar, something like that. And it will give you an incredible, incredible number of questions that people ask about that particular subject. What is the mortgage?

How hard is it to get more

questions? You could never even think of yourself, even if you have a mortgage broker, it will tell you questions that people are asking. So I would go there first, and I will put the search term and get all of these questions. And then one thing that I personally like to do is then think Well, okay,

just for the sake of argument, say, the question is, what is a mortgage?

I might say, well, how could I answer that in the style of Laurel and Hardy or how can I answer that in the style of Coronation Street or in the style of a particular comedian or in the style of something from pop culture or if if Queen did a song about it Live Aid You know what, what, what would they

How would they sing about you know mortgages and then it’s just messing around with things like that and suddenly you’ll have our own that’s quite interesting and you know that may be how your your example of the guy with the cooking cooking a cake it’s just that sort of jump you just trying to think of things from a different perspective now it’s all right for me to say because one of my big spikes on when I do these personality prospect profile things is creativity if you want creative and here are naturally or an accountant or something like that perhaps you would find it really difficult to go through that process but actually I would give it a try because it’s just it’s just sometimes trying to associate something that you are comfortable with I the mortgage with something that is different. I Laurel and Hardy or Coronation Street or queen that might just give you that idea as to how you you you

answer that question in a blog or on a video in a podcast in a in a different way now now I’ve got this image in my head of a mortgage broker strutting around on a stage with the microphones Singing Singing more style of Queen, but that would be fantastic. Isn’t it a big, bad world? Well, I guess it identifies good idea or not. So I just had it as you were saying, but I think maybe think about the hobbies and it because I think you know, I love rugby. I love Batman. I love there’s all these things that I love. What would I would I want to be associated as the rugby playing marketing guy? Yeah. Yeah, that’s a good thing. So I could do my videos and relate them to record, you know, and then you’ve got all the things directly like the scrum. The try the goalkicking, you know, it could be like getting your email marketing, right? It’s like kicking the conversion. So if you want to do it like Jonny Wilkinson, you can do blah blah. But so I guess if once you’ve got that theme you can then

Everything could roll from out there. So if you’re if you are sneaker playing accounts, and then you could there’s maths involved in that or dance or something, I guess you think about it what you like, if it is a, like a hobby feel strongly about and people know you as that guy, then you could easily roll that out there. Absolutely. And I think that people love pop culture. It makes support entire life pop culture, hobbies, and what we do outside work is mainly the rest of our lives. And if you can take your sort of pretty dull business subjects and tag it to something interesting like that, then I genuinely think that that’s that’s a way to engage with people. And a surprisingly you know, small number of financial services firms evil big corporate to do this sort of thing I remember again, it’s one of those career defining moments. This is probably 15 or maybe even 20 years ago but I remember

went out. Roberts died in Coronation Street, right alphabets died on New Year’s Eve. And he was setting chair. Everybody else was partying. He was starting his chair and you could just see he’s just slipped away. And the storyline developed over the following year was his wife Audrey robbers trying to claim on the life insurance policy. But the life insurance company declined the claim because they said, Well, he died after midnight and the policy ran out at midnight. So we’re

now I remember going into my boss at the time things you know, this episode of Coronation Street just ran last night and now everybody in the country thinks that life insurance company is going to decline the claim because it was over the stroke of midnight and people think you know Coronation Street real so this is what

I’m the guy said, Roger. Just bugger off. Don’t be such an idiot. I don’t think he’s 17 million people watch that episode. Hi. And that’s the impression that again, we should get something out.

To explain it or make light of it, or something. Yeah. And again, that was one of those them in the top. We didn’t do anything. And here I got told I was stupid, but I will remember. No, I don’t think I was because, you know, allowing something to some some pop cultural reference is absolutely key to engagement. And I think that was an opportunity even 20 years ago that we missed. Yeah, no, absolutely. I think you could imagine now that they’re big gifts and memes and things. Absolutely.

Roger, I thought I already booked you for an hour and I know you’re a busy man and I think we’ve I’ve taken up more more time than I’ve booked that’s fine if you if there’s anything else you want to talk about then then we can do and but it’s been really interesting chat. I think we could have probably go on from definitely going on for long.

shocker isn’t that yeah no absolutely well what we could do we could do a vlog kind of crossover to map go to atomic are not me yes we are yes we are and that’s a couple of weeks away Is it that is couple of weeks yeah so we could do something along the lines

I was just thinking that I could do a two to have me topic on and you could ever get me for stealing

my blog or there’s like four of you

want to finish off because you did ask about this is I did bring my balls with me yes and and of course it’s one of the things I do on stage but going back to something we said earlier yeah we shouldn’t one of the most annoying things about marketing these days is that some companies do bombard people with messages upon messages upon messages and you know I I’ve been having a bit of a look at some of the Twitter

feeds of big financial services brands and I’m going to be cruel enough to name and shame them maybe I should do but if you actually go into their Twitter feed and click on the tweet and reply which shows you not only the tweets that they’re making, but the replies to tweets that they’re making, you’ll be certainly staggered to find that there are no replies to anything. And this purely just broadcast broadcast broadcast broadcast engagement going on at all with anybody and that’s really sad. And then we’ve mentioned earlier about people getting emails six times a day from the same brands we’ve got to stop doing this and what I do on stage is I I get the audience to pretend that they’re the world and I usually focus down on to one table of 10 that’s usually tables attended conferences and that sort of fat so um, let’s pretend that you’re my target market and these balls and they actually squishy balls but the origin since the tennis balls balls are actually

We pretend their emails or tweets and throwing the ball

audience and it always gets a bit of a laugh and some some kind solo, pick the ball up and chuck it back at me and hit me on the head with it, which always good but but you know when you do it in that sort of environment and you just break it down to that everybody agrees yeah like it when people Chuck balls up me and you know it gets a bit if I if I stand there and the audiences for 20 minutes just checking balls at one person that probably have really taken off. But if we don’t like it, when people do that to us, you know, when people phone us up and say, Have you been in a car accident recently? Or do you want PPI cover compensation if we don’t like it? When people do that to worse? Why would we as marketers and business owners feel that we have the right to do it to anybody else? That’s one of the things I can’t understand.

So let’s not bombard people with constant messages. Let’s understand who our customers are and communicate with them in an engaging way.

Love it, you’ve done that before

but one of the best some apps we’ve had that was amazing Roger Thank you so much. It’s really good to chat and literally that hours flown by and like, feels like two minutes but it does feel like we’ve covered off the ground and I really look forward to catching up with you a comic con and and continue watching the vlog and hopefully I’ll get see you speak. In fact, one of my plans is to have the lead generation for financial services conference at some point, so I know exactly you’re going to be getting on the phone to first

because look forward to having that conversation sometime soon. Fantastic. Thank you, mate. And I’ll speak to you soon. Bye. Cheers. Take care. So there we haven’t that was my chat with

Roger Edwards such a great character really knowledgeable about marketing if you ever get the opportunity to see him speak live I highly recommend that his talk that he did at the summit featured accounts we didn’t actually talk about something that was on my mind and I didn’t bring it up is a critical john the wine man so if you ever get to see that talk that is incredible if you ever get to the mind will be any of that online but yeah it is fantastic that a great story so I did actually video that episode with Roger and so it might have been a bit weird or audio hearing Roger three balls out me which sounds a bit odd but I will definitely be using that clip to promote that episode. So there will be if you have joined the Facebook group. It’s called lead generation for financial services. You’ll find it on Facebook. I’ll definitely be putting the video in there and all my Instagram and Twitter and things like that. So I committed the cardinal podcast sin and I didn’t actually ask Roger to share with his his details with

Everyone has a web address is Roger Edwards cut at UK and is our Oh gee and he’s really active on Twitter and is Roger underscore Edwards find one that follow him his vlog is incredibly funny and also educational as well. So Roger is someone that we’re kind of in the early stages of the minute of planning an event or or a conference and Rogers definitely the sort of person we want to get coming to speak. So hopefully I’ll be able to announce some of that stuff soon. Thank you so much for listening. If you do like the show, please drop us a review over on iTunes. If you can have the amazing and I will see you next time for another episode of the lead generation for financial services podcast. See you then. Cheers.

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