014 – Katie Hart – Gender Marketing

014 - Katie Hart - Gender Marketing
014 - Katie Hart - Gender Marketing

I sit down with Katie Hart a psychologist and marketer who specialises in gender marketing. We discuss the difference between male and female brains and how we can adapt our marketing to not put off one or the other.

I’m a huge psychology fan and absolutely love how we as marketers can appeal to more people using different imagery, text and fonts etc.

Katie’s website: https://www.rhetonic.co.uk/
Connect with Katie on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aboutkatiehart/

Hello and welcome back to the lead generation for financial services podcast. And this week, I’m sitting down with Katie Hart, who is a psychologist marketer, as she specializes in gender marketing, what it says on the tin. I’ll let her explain it a bit more in detail for you. So I don’t butcher it. But essentially we talk about Katie and I did some public speaking together about a year ago. And she had some really kind of interesting concepts on how men and women are different. But I suppose it’s not a case of men and women yourself. There are sort of male brains, female brains, male eyes, female, I say a woman could have a Mei Li and a man could have a female off. That kind of makes sense. But it’s really interesting how we can solve, adapt and make our ads differently so we can generate more leads especially if we’re using like Facebook ads or LinkedIn ads because we

can test females against now so probably enough of me rambling on Let’s dive straight into this conversation with Casey heart gender marketing expert and psychologist Hello and welcome back to the podcast I’ve got Katie heart with me who is a gender marketing expert

so I guess we need to cover off what is gender marketing and I guess some people are like before we met I had not even thought of it as a as lucky as a niche yeah but yeah so just a bit of background for everyone Katie and I spoke at two events one in Cambridge want to Pete Rose a year ago you must have been must have been almost a year ago which is crazy and your talk got a lot of laughs in the right place in theory

was brilliant

and yes, we’ll talk the oldest getting them to talk through that but also then how we can apply that for some people.

thing as well because there’s things like were discussing earlier Facebook LinkedIn ads all those other platforms you can separate your audience and you can target to man and you can target to women differently and we do that I think I sent you at the time I’m really excited about testing as and I haven’t done we’ve tested the same stuff to men and women got different results but I don’t think we’ve taken on board and and focus on right this is the average going to do for the females and this is the males is something we still need to do. But let’s talk through it and explain what what is gender marketing. Okay,

so gender marketing really has come from neuroscience. So it’s been born out of advances in technology, which now mean we can see what is going on in the brain when people are going about their everyday lives. So we can now measure responses in the brain. And from that we can determine whether people are interested in things whether they like things whether they’re cute.

about things, whether they’re afraid of things. And all of this has created a massive amount of data and research, which when you start to look through, it has come up with some quite clear differences between what we call the stereotypical male brain and the stereotypical female brain. I think it’s worth saying at the outset, we are not saying every male will have a male brain, you’re every female have a male or female brain. And it’s also worth saying that moment. I mean, there’s a lot of research to be done, but we believe it is almost a spectrum. So rather than there being sort of clear compartments and categories that people fall into, however, what the research has shown is that definitely we are not all the same. And I think this makes sense when you think back physiologically, you know, we are animals we have evolved to suit specific purposes. And it’s not surprising that actually, as part of that evolution, we have evolved to be different search engine marketing takes all of this knowledge out of neuroscience.

says okay, so if we understand that male brains and female brains respond differently to things, how should we be marketing? How should we be approaching this? How should we be slightly changing or tailoring the content that we have or the images that we use or the language that we use so that we can really make sure that male brains and female brains both connect with it.

And I think a lot of that has come out of the fact that when we’ve looked at the activity within the brain, we’ve realized that most of what we learned as marketeers actually is naturally skewed towards the male brain. Yeah, so when we talk about tactics and strategy and rules and campaigns, they’re all very well they’re all very military. They’re all very male brain, very competitive, very controlling, and female brains aren’t interested in that. So when you layer over the top of that, the fact that now females are massively influential in something like 81% of

purchasing decisions either they make the decisions on their own or they are the the key influencer and those aren’t white goods and you know that weekly grocery shop these are cause mortgages, houses holidays, you know quite high value items. So we’re still marketing to them in a way which would suit a male brain. We are leaving them badly served. And so this in that there’s a massive commercial opportunity. Yeah, absolutely. And I remember your talk as well. You had some really good bad examples

particularly is it Sheila’s Well, she has whales there’s a story as well the before I met you hit else was speaking with us I was chatting to someone and they said you were in the audience have an event and someone mentioned Sheila’s wheels as a good

You are right

and the really funny thing was half the room. Time to look at me as if to say how you’re going to respond.

Clearly has some kind of reputation of everything really angry

positive work should be

positive because

it’s so Barbie doll on the cover that in your in your talk that is not about pink and fluffy things. Yeah, I mean to me that is really lazy marketing. Yeah. And those are the kinds of examples of Jen’s marketing when it’s done really badly. And I don’t remember the Bic pens for her. You know they did big biros never suddenly in a pink packet. And you know the one pound 20 more than the guys is why can we not right with a blue pen I do understand yeah and yeah that’s that’s a really good point is that if it’s done well gentlemen, marketing it’s unlikely that you’ll even notice it’s being done yeah, so not necessarily being like feminine it’s kind of just understand so we’ll talk through how that the brain works so that’s a How did you get into it and and we use all

Focusing on this before like, the research was done with, like the literacy you talk about the brain patterns and things like that. No, I mean my my background is psychology and I felt like I had to quite disparate parts of my career. So one was psychology. I taught Psychology at regional college, absolutely loved it, junkie for it, passionate about it, fascinated by people. And then alongside that was almost the day job, which was marketing. And I used to organize exhibitions and do a lot of training in marketing field. And I don’t know why it took so long. But eventually the penny dropped though if psychology is defined as the science of mind and behavior,

it ought to be absolutely central to everything that we do in marketing. So I literally it was a an awakening of sort of aha moment I realized that and I googled it and got absolutely fascinated by the research reports and the few people who were traveling in it

and I just thought this is this is brilliant. This actually

brings together everything that I’ve been doing so far. I think I’m interested in passionate about it’s all it’s all happening, it’s all been coming to address.

So I set my business up 10 just over 10 years ago now to, to really sort of explore this. And at that stage didn’t really know where it was going to take me

the psychology research that I’ve done showed me there’s a huge amount coming out in the arena of brains and understanding brains and and that’s part of the excitement is that this isn’t information which is sort of old hat and getting out of date because there is constantly something new coming through and with all of that it’s a case of thing where’s where’s the opportunity? Yeah, but for me, one of the one of the biggest areas that I just thought has massive potential commercially it’s so many businesses out there needs are looking for the edge, I can engage more, how can they build more customer loyalty? How can they can get competitive advantage and it was just natural to to use this as part of their toolkit.

Yeah I almost almost fell into it but yeah it’s it’s just exploded really yeah I love psychology of it so many books on it fascinates me how our brain works and so many elements of the latest stuff on the

on the data that three kind of parts of our brain has been a while since I read it now so it’s kind of like the the master bundle the reptilian of right written and talked about it so much that was like okay tomorrow

we are recording early in the morning and then you have my second coffee.

Yes that the reptilian brain was fascinated with it for ages and then really kind of opened my eyes up to the way we write our ads and things like that too. I love it. Cool. So how do you start your talk and then like introduce this to your audience when you get enough on stage and kind of presenting the this idea because you kind of remember

The female brain lesion about the computer with all the knobs and switches the dials on it, and then there’s the

missing a bit before them. But that’s one that I remember. Yes. Well, I think the way I start usually is by just saying to people, or trying to get into people’s minds, the fact that actually at some level, we know this already. So I usually start by saying, you know, hands up if you live or work or have ever lived or worked with somebody of the opposite sex. And I think it’s quite clear to say that everybody puts their hand up at that point. And then yes, you’re right, I put that slide up, which says female, so that the females are known as being very intricate, very complicated, don’t really understand what’s going on. Yeah, whereas the males, as you said, there’s just an officer interesting so that that gets the first little bit of humor across but at the same time, this is really trying to get the message that actually lots of us know this and you know, if your parents or if you had siblings who

of the opposite sex. Or if you, you know, live, you live or work with people who are, you know, that actually we don’t all get frustrated by the same things excited by the same things we don’t we don’t want approach life in the same way and so it’s really trying to take what is known and understood outside of the work environment and applying and starting to bring it into the work environment because I do appreciate this is this is controversial you know we’ve had years of being able to you know not not treat women differently cos you could be you know sex discrimination you can’t do anything different just because he’s a guy yeah but actually physiologically we are different. And so I try to sort of build build people’s confidence and SEO and take the knowledge and experience they’ve already got that from their home life and say, okay, you know this stuff this isn’t rocket science at my different actually what we’re going to do is give you some of the science behind that and unpack how we’re different and why we’re different. Yeah and then hope you to see where the potential is for terrorists exploiting those differences.


and then I made jumping ahead again I remember the story about the teal scarf yes and and then obviously when you’re talking about the physiological differences like how are either the way we look at color all our brain thinks about color that I remember

my part it’s asking me to get the peach coat for our daughter and she’s got three think coats

one of those changes

all they do it that’s one thing that I don’t like the color pink. Oh. Which looks like a cheap paper though. You’re saying we got a lot of adultery and Aster. Sorry

um. But yeah. So is that no way our eyes are working or is it the way our brain is working and you How do you explain that in terms of and you’ve got your anecdote that similar to the the estimated

Story yes it’s so it’s a bit of both we’ve discovered that actually male eyes and female eyes or stereotypical stereotypical male or female eyes are actually structured slightly differently. So again, this goes back to to us as sort of animals in our evolution. So the mail on the surface of the back of your eye, the services actually made up of millions of tiny tiny things called rods and cones and they each detects different colors and they detect movement differently and all they’ve got slight nuances and what they pick up and then conveyed electronically into the brain what we’ve learned is that the stereotypical male I has a concentration of those right in the center of their vision so they have a very strong vision with a focal points and we believe this is this goes back to the sort of days of cave men and women are not instead of hunting with the males would have had to have spotted a

Animal moving on the horizon. So again, the Malay is great at detecting movement.

But when you focus in on that you’re actually shutting out and lots of what’s going on around you. So your peripheral vision is is weaker. Yeah, conversely, the female is almost the flip side. So the female I has a broader concentration of rods and cones, particularly more around the periphery of their vision. So right from that moment, the males and females see in inverted commas differently or see things differently. So one of the anecdotes I quite often use are again, examples from home lives that most of us have had. Yeah, of where a male is saying, I can’t find my black trousers or you know you’re in front of the fridge saying where’s the butter type thing and it’s there but the mail it doesn’t see it because unless they’re looking right at it, their peripheral vision is weaker so they they don’t see it as easily whereas the female roles are eyes and can see it quite straightforward, Lee and you know what’s what’s wrong with your toe.

So that’s that’s the sort of visual field as it were and how it differs but within that you’re right the sensitivity to colors is quite different. So if you think of color as a spectrum the female i is able to detect different shades or different colors along that spectrum a lot easier than the male is so the female I will detect if something is peach as opposed to pink or if it’s you know skin color as opposed to paint for instance slight nuances of difference that the mail I just look something that was perfect same shortly

but for the female I it’s not an IT and it matters that it’s not so in terms of your marketing and your branding. You know, if you’ve got a Pantone reference or a color that is your corporate color if you’re suddenly on an exhibition Stan giving something away, which is still purple, but it’s not the same shade of purple, the female I will notice that

register that and it starts to detract a bit from your reputation from your credibility because it’s not right. Sorry. But that’s what Chris so it’s, it’s partly about the colors and when we can detect it to color is actually different. It’s also about the language. We give those colors. So the females, you know, because we spot so many different colors, we have to have different language to determine what is to the example that I used. And what is Aquamarine and you’re all these different shapes that we have. Whereas to a male either male brain, it’s just we agree greedy both. Perhaps you know, it’s why overcomplicate it you don’t need 17 different shades. You’ve got your you’ve got the middle, you’ll have blue, green, yeah, so, it’s Yeah, it’s partly about the language that we use to describe it as well. Absolutely. And also remember going back to I think we use will cover if you’re talking about your own children or children in general, in terms of the pictures that they create, and the boys were

Like cars, and yes, item vehicle. Yeah. And then the girls are creating sort of like family people.

And then just again, I assume that’s again to do with the brain. Is that in the way they look at things? Or have I jumped ahead as well? No, it’s what it’s one of the things that we always argue about in psychology. is these differences that we’re seeing in the brain? Is it nature? Is it nurture? So is it the way we are born? Is it the way we’ve evolved? Is it a physiological structural difference? Or is it actually the way we’ve been brought up? And so quite often, we do research on people as young as we can, because obviously, life is complicated. And if you’re doing research on a 35 year old, there are so many factors which have influenced their life to the point they’re at. So what psychologists tries to research really early some of the earlier stuff that has been done has been on 12 minutes on babies, which I think is probably raising a few moral questions.

Yeah, but we can tell from that that actually 12 minutes old, there are differences. So we don’t know what the differences are about. But all we can say categorically is that the females at that stage fixate more on a face on the image of a face. Whereas male babies at that stage fixate more on objects and particularly moving objects. So right from that stage, we seem to have a natural curiosity or natural preference for one or the other. So, yes, what I was talking about in the presentation I gave is that if you give five or six year old children, a sheet of blank paper and box of pens and say, draw me a picture, what you usually find is the girls will draw people flowers, butterflies, Rainbows, you know, they’re pretty much always a living thing, one form or another enough they usually use many more colors so they have a broader palette.

All quite bright. You know, there’s a few picture your average rainbow or the sun in the background and a nice color flower. They’re always quite strong, bright colors.

What we also realize is that usually the girls draw things with a, an inch of blue across the top, but an inch of green across the bottom. Yeah. Which

tells us straight away that the when the girls are drawing the picture, we are on the same level that they are. So we are looking at it. Yeah, from the same viewpoint. Contrast that with what the boys in the mail brains often draw is they will usually draw objects very often vehicles of some sort. So moving objects if they were given their own opportunity. So trains, cars, planes, you know, rockets, all that sort of stuff,

hardly likely to have any living thing in sight. If they are there’s usually an accidental driver will pilot

or maybe

they usually use less colors in their in their power.

And they are usually much stronger, quite dark, you know, navies, bottom, greens, all those sorts of shapes.

And what’s also interesting is that very often they don’t draw them from being on the same level, they draw them in more of a plan view, looking, looking down on things for you. Yeah, and this is before, you know, drones and things really get get into the mindset. So it’s interesting that when we then start to think, Okay, what does that mean for for marketing and for how we brand ourselves and how we put communications out if we think about your typical

automotive car adverse, I mean, like that, you know, if you’ve got a BMW and they usually really strong dark colors. Yeah, taken from a slightly elevated view. So you’re looking down on the car, usually there’s an A wonderful sort of flash of light across the windscreen, so you don’t actually get to see the driver already body in there. That’s good. confuse the image of brilliant from our brains. Yeah, perfect. Female brains are literally left cold when you look at what’s going on inside as

There’s nothing they can’t connect with anything that they’re not yeah doesn’t feel relevant or appealing to them I remember also the other effort was like I said the the the bottom was opening up and it was like a crocodile yeah well that’s your own against your brain

just ahead of the game yeah absolutely because you know I say to people as I talk through these efforts and say it’s okay I found something with a reference to a living being

yeah as you say the bonuses up and in the shadow that that costs it’s it creates crocodile teeth in the background so yeah again really appealing and again for the same

color what color it was thinking I remember thinking that the interview on and and honestly I remember thinking that and then I suppose this is one thing I was thinking that some cars or maybe that car they were thinking we want maybe men to drive this BMW. So then you could argue that that

is good but also I suppose yeah so I guess we want to get onto and you’ve also got one sort of brand Who are they have offices just down the road they’ll compare the Meerkat users you or would you say gender neutral all that kind of fit in the middle? Yes I mean they’ve they’ve bucks the trend in a way because financial services do have a bad reputation for all this stuff you know that by nature of what they’re selling the devils in the detail and so they need lots of detail and and very often the way that they communicate their USP is by drilling down into that and conveying themselves as you know, being different from the rest. However, what compared to the meerkats did is gave it a personality gave us a character and gave it an endearing character that we all sort of felt towards and just when you thought you’re getting bored of that they then produce the baby version. female brain just lights up

Yeah, what it’s done, but it’s it’s not related to the service that they offer the products that they offer any way. But it’s just been an extremely powerful association which has been created. And, you know, almost, we’re almost back to the children. Again, the sort of pester power of the children wanting parents to say, was insured through a particular provider so that they can get the next toy or whatever it is. So yeah, it’s a brilliant example of actually how you can take something which isn’t naturally of interest to the female brain, but sell it through route which really sparks them so incredible they’ve done because you always think of this is a gimmick that’s going to end and that’s how many years it’s been. Yeah, over 10 must be Yes, I was. I think the idea came from we’re on the same road. Yes,

it was thought of but the interesting thing is that if you’ve noticed, but laterally they’ve almost pared back of it from it. So they did the, you know, the very female the sort of

Titanic one that they did. And then they did when they launched going out for meals. And whereas the latest one they’re doing they’re gone they’re doing a sort of parody of the apple launches on the

gay and it’s it’s searching energy providers and things like that which is bringing it back into a sort of more mail so that I don’t know if they’ve realized that they’ve gone quite a long way down the female preference and then anger or whether they thought with that energy provider? Is it the male brains that are the ones that look at the energy thing are they you didn’t use I don’t know the data on that.

So what I think would be really interesting if we could is because when we’re advertising on things like Facebook and LinkedIn, we’ve got an Instagram especially we’ve got a large area that we can use images and all of those providers or LinkedIn not so much what Facebook does not want you to put more than 20% text on that image is really important and it can make people stop there. You have to stop and be great size when we’re done.

In next week or so, is that if we could pick out the get go and shutter stock and if we say if we take mortgages for example we gave a families or homes and then we could get maybe three or four male brain images and press for female right images because obviously on the podcast is we can explain it as much as we can with words if you’re can see that would be great yeah do that would be fantastic so I think all the mortgage websites that I see are very male Ryan they feel very I remember seeing lots of images of houses not so much people elevate the dog strong yeah

I was thinking a year ago remember that a lot you have a very impressive

as the leading

so how then it’s over

Think then let’s think let’s take this table just for example, what could we do that we’ve got those kind of those hands I say to a lot of them

people buy from people are getting yourself there as well, what we found from some ads as well, images of people and families to really well advised if we had a break or just walk in and sit down here now and say that I’m getting some ads together tomorrow, what kind of images which you kind of, or what advice would you give them if they’re going to go on to Shutterstock? And

I would say, Yes, I think like a lot of sectors, the male brain is pretty well served already. What we don’t want to do is introduce images that actually switch them out right now for a you know, no brain or no longer make them feel comfortable with organizations that the moment they are perfectly happy with you. So we need to get that balance, right. So I think most of what we’re trying to do is incorporate images which are more relevant and maybe

Almost a female right now, female brain is very

astute with the detail. So again, it follows the line of what we said about colors and shapes, the female brain picks up on a lot more, and the females tend to be much more empathetic. So if you start adding these things together, one of the biggest issues that we have when we’re looking at creating images and female brain is actually very easy to female brain switches off. So if you think about your ideal family image that you might want, if the female picks up on things in that image, which don’t seem genuine, authentic, she will switch off so if it’s too obviously shutter stock and staged. So I’m thinking about you know, quite often you get these crafted ones which business service providers us where you’ve got four people discussing a presentation on a laptop, I know one of them’s Asian,

you can take all of those off I don’t think actually that

Not convinced about anything. So I think if we are going to be including images which have families, they need to be ones which really do look genuine. If you’re going to have images of people, you know, over 65 with a grandchild on their shoulders because you know, they’ve got their pension sorted, it needs to look at an incredible Yeah. So actually, you can end up doing more damage if you go for cheap photography, which and doesn’t have that. Yeah. And is to obviously using actors in a in a very staged pose. Yeah, and it’s, it’s clear and obvious. And I can see I’ve got an image in my head of a really good family one where it’s, they’re actually just like, messing around on the think. And then they’ve got, you know, candid shots, and then I’m thinking of what I worked in doing related stuff in the retirement planning and things like that where there’s some real staged Yeah, grand

and they will use

the same one so we want to use them as

And then

what I’ll do better. So if I’ve only got access to those stage was, I can’t find the right one of my speech, you not be better off not not using imagery I think it’s almost it sounds negative, but it’s almost damage limitation. So if you don’t have any images at all, which the female brain connects with, you’re not going to you’re not getting going to register. So someone’s clicking through their Facebook and feeds, they won’t stop at all. If there’s something which registers a bit even if even if, you know, split second later, they’re thinking, Oh, you know, actually, they’ve stopped, you’re stopped there, you’ve got their attention to your split second. So it’s better to have those kinds of images there. Some of the things that we’re learning moment is actually about how to construct those images. So

direct eye contact is really strong. Yeah. So if you’re flicking through your feet in the somebody’s looking back at you, that stops you that gets your attention quite quickly. Okay.

If you’ve got lots of people who are working together our family all sitting around a table and none of them are looking at you or none of them as returned your way that’s actually again a negative that’s quite quite rude and distant and it’s quite easy to dismiss it so sometimes it’s literally just taking those images and you can quite often get a sequence of them can’t use of this one you like roadshows is. Doc, if you go to do that particular provider is you can sometimes get difference may cups of the same sort of scenario. So it’s choosing those which are going to have the best outcome for you and what’s great with Facebook ads and LinkedIn and so you can you can see your like, click through rate and things like that on each one. And we say to a lot of people, you don’t you can have the text you can have we what we do is our attempt variation. We try it with three or four different images and you can quickly see which one’s told me Well, we do like an answer meeting every every week and we literally pull them up, we pause the ones that aren’t working well. So you hear all that data so

I suppose you don’t have to get it right. straightaway. You could be like, Oh, this this one though. The future at me this one either leave Katie. So I’ll try that one when they’re not looking to try that. And then I think Let me see within a few days well i think it was right you know this one what the person is looking straight happy it’s maybe it’s one person it’s not family is not really that relevant to what I’m doing but actually it stopped we’ve got a clip for us we’ve got more leads from it yeah

so it’s kind of rather than looking at chef something and what do I like it’s actually let’s try some stuff. Yeah, take some take some advice and that split tests. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. There was a brilliant I speak to a guy who was working at LinkedIn on some of their internal services, they provide it and he did a split test and they use the image of a guy probably mid 30s sitting on a step so he looked like he was in a in an open area somebody sitting on

laptop on his lap and they they shooting the photography themselves. So they had him working on the laptop and the first time they put the campaign out that was the image that they used and it got reasonable and some traction it was okay the second time they did it they use a different shot which was having exactly the same pose but just looking not directly at the camera but at about 30 degrees so as you were looking at him he was looking slightly over your left shoulder over 400% increase in response rate from that just I mean they were the guy was saying how you know, we turned somebody’s head

and yeah, absolutely through the roof in terms of the sales that they got off the back of it in these particular books that they were pushing so amazing. I do I still get amazed despite doing it every day looking at some different ads and different things. amazed at the things that make a difference. Yes,

I would. Not even talking about like text and wording and things like that. There’s so many different factors that can if you

Keep whittling down. I think. That’s why people say. I get annoyed when people say will always be testing. But it kind of what you always want. You can always make things better and better and better. And a lot of people run like a campaign and it doesn’t get the lead straightaway. And I think our Facebook doesn’t work. Yeah.

So many different things that you can just make it better. Better. better. Better. Yeah.

different variations over time. Do you do much stuff? We like the wording is it more like the visual stuff? No wording is critical to make them as you say, division will have the the instant impact. And when we look at what goes on in the brain vision is one of the biggest things that we pick up on without

often being consciously aware of what it is that we’ve picked up on. So those can be a shortcut to your reptilian brain. Yeah, so they bypass a lot of the rational thought whereas language is in the cortex around the outside so yeah, it does take longer to process

but languages bicycle Yeah. So

one of the one of the things that again, I use an

presentation is that the stereotypical male brain has a preference for going into thinking mode. So if you put it in a, you challenge it together as a slightly stressful situation, it will go into thinking mode, whereas the female brain will go into feelings and emotions. So sometimes just being mindful of that, and the difference in responses from if you say to a female brain,

do you think life will be better? If you know do you how do you think about your future female brain won’t respond very well to that because it’s it’s slightly prickly and uncomfortable and actually if I’m what do I think of something while there’s there’s a pressure there whereas if you asked the female brain How do you feel about your future or it straightaway that’s more comfortable and they you know, their stress levels will reduce and now be much more receptive and much more open minded but you asked the male brain how I feel about my future and you like

All of it

lately literally yeah so the male brain so if you want to appeal to the male brain if you use language like you know sort of thought based problem solving things language that works better

they like chunks of information and quite simple chunks and I don’t have to work hard to find it so bullet points and things like that work a lot better for the male brain whereas the female brains like case studies and like to be taken on a journey they liked the story a lot more so again if you’re putting you know a landing page on your website or something have both you don’t have if you’re male this click on this link to this page if you’re female you know have one landing page but make it obvious that the bullet points which the male brain would like but actually you know, here’s a running down the page beside that

someone’s story or a case study. Yeah, no, absolutely at all like a video or

things like that. Yeah. So is it I’m afraid it is running through everything and it is the language and the things that we pick up on and it may I was talking to somebody

In London on

today’s Tuesday, I think it was, and his business is very male brained. And he was saying, I’ve just realized this, you know, we’ve got to do something here to change it. But they were doing, they’ve got a lot of infographics about particular work within that sector. And it’s all very statistical analysis, that’s, that’s fine. Or you just need to incorporate some of those just can’t speak statistics into phrases like, how would you feel if you knew that 69% of you know, our employees or so you’re bringing in language which the female brain likes, and we’ve also got the stats, which the male brain is so you don’t alienate either of them. But there’s something there that both of them can feel comfortable and connect with. So it’s just as you say, it’s testing but it’s sort of playing with the language and how you actually present some of this brilliant Is there anything else that we haven’t covered in terms of where advertising marketing concepts that could help people they’re doing the same

So we got a mix of like, marketers have like big financial services companies. We’ve got self employed brokers after do everything themselves,

but I think maybe, yeah, there’s, there’s lots. I mean, you know, this, I could talk about this all day, but

I mean, yes, yeah. So you can look at things like font because some of those will have a natural preference one way or the other. But I think in terms of what’s likely to be meaningful, what are the other key differences is that the male brain likes to

analyze, it likes to pull things apart, it likes to say, don’t have any literary again, if you always go back to the playground, you think about children, you know, you give a boy and you know, it’s always tested to destruction. We call it a plan, how does it work? How can I was done this. And so we said in our brains like to analyze whereas the female brains like to synthesize and so young girls tend to be more crafty and they want to create things and make things so this gives us a natural opportunity in terms of

businesses as well because the female brains will naturally want to pull things together bring things together refer share like they are much more programmed to do that so they will be more collaborative they will sort of form communities if you’ve got you know Facebook groups or forums or anything like that you’ll find the female brain loves that and likes to feel part of something doesn’t appeal so much the male brain they like to sort of standard alone a bit more and you know their activity within a group will be quite different so that’s another interesting way that office got we’ve got a Facebook group for financial services for lead generation Facebook group and we did worry for a little bit recently that there wasn’t that interaction but then when we would speak to people that never liked everything never commented have a shared anything, especially on the fact that I love your videos. I watched him like everyone’s like

feel like it’s

a brick wall.

Some time and we’ve got lots more engagement from that but the majority of people in that group are the mix is actually have a look

yeah it’s really interesting to think about as well because a lot of sort of Modern Marketing is creating community yet to build and talk which is an actual opportunity for the female brain so if you give them that opportunity in that environment they will they will love it and they also to flourish in it and become almost evangelical yeah they do like to encourage other people and to share and you can see it I’m thinking about the group so maybe now i can i can get that is one of the conference coming up and it is certainly the good guys are all doing that as well. But it does feel very strong female rallying behind the speakers that were aged efforts Yeah, awesome. Okay. So let’s talk about you’ve got low resources on your website blocking that so where can we go to not be France they want because I want

Yeah, well, there’s obviously lots of lots of information on the website. So my business is called Britannic, yeah. So returning.co.uk or LinkedIn, Twitter, on kt art. I think, Tim, Masonic on Twitter. So follow me for all those sorts of things. There’s always, you know, always critiquing was I see, sorry,


that was what, you know, I go after the, there’s lots of examples of big brands and things like that. So, you know, when

you look at their website

know, I tend to say, I mean, there’s been some relevant examples that I’ve been blogging about.

Tim Yeah, actually turning things on their head and instead of so logos and branding. So you know, asking getting a picture of a logo and saying, what company is this actually turning it around and saying, Well, can you remember you know, if I give you a blank sheet of paper ask you to draw a logo

What can you remember? Did you do the Starbucks different? yes yeah it’s a different record within the brain and it’s it’s very interesting to see how other organizers are the people view your brand and your organization you might have five recognition in terms of your brand but actually when people are asked to free record lives yeah

so yes tends to be things like that, that I really enjoy. Retired was spelling it, I’m not interest. But if it isn’t he isn’t he to and for November. Yes, the blue and Katie heart on LinkedIn. Yes. Okay at it. Yes. Ha, RT, brilliant. Fantastic. All right. Thank you so much. You’re welcome. We’ve got loads and I’m sure there’s people are going to want to come and check out and find a bit more from you. Well, I’m always there for answering questions. So please do brilliant. Fantastic. Thanks very much. Thanks, Alex. And then we have some really interesting topics that we covered from cases certainly made me think a bit more about when we’re putting campaigns

We think about imagery when we’re looking at websites, especially in we talked obviously a lot on that sort of mortgage front of people use those kind of images that are focused on appealing to the male brain and the mail I when actually, if we think about it, I mean, you guys will know, as advisors who makes those decisions, is it more on the kind of the female side obviously, is a joint decision, but also who as well is kind of first looking who’s going to be looking online, these sort of things as well. loads of things we can test I’m going to be doing some testing if I get any interesting sort of data feedback. I normally share everything in our Facebook group. So join our Facebook group look on Facebook, obviously for lead generation for financial services, you can join us in there just please don’t do anything spammy. And you’re welcome to sort of joining the conversations that we have in there. We have live videos twice a week from experts, some of them from the podcast others that we bring in as well and we’ve started doing talking out has become now sort of a how to episodes as

practical things in there as well. And if you’ve enjoyed the podcast please subscribe and drop us a review. Really appreciate it and I’ll see you next time.

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