006 – Jodie Stevenson – Mortgage Broker With Too Many Leads

006 - Jodie Stevenson - Mortgage Broker With Too Many Leads
006 - Jodie Stevenson - Mortgage Broker With Too Many Leads

Jodie like all other broker bought leads but was curious about how they did it. So, she taught herself and now has too many leads. You can join her firm and get all the leads you need or buy the leads from her.

We talk through how she gets all her leads through Google Ads and the USP that makes all the difference.

Connect with Jodie on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodiestevenson

Hello, and welcome back to the lead generation for financial services podcast. And this week, I’ve got an actual mortgage broker on the line with me. So this is taken from a live interview in our Facebook group. And not only are they a mortgage broker, she generates her own leads, she does everything herself. And she’s inundated with leads. So she also needs to find some brokers to help her out, deliver those leads, or she can sell those leads as well. So not only you’re going to learn how she does it, but if you don’t want to do it yourself, you can buy those leads from her. And what she does is a very simple tactic as I mean you can do as well. And I’m really excited to share this interview with you. So let’s dive right in. So I can see what are some of the big banks? I think I saw there was a Santander and Lloyds in on united. Yeah,


So my, actually my dad worked for Halifax for a really long time. And so did my sister. And so today and at one point, I think we may have all been in the same region at one time, which was very confusing and but yeah, we all we all wait for family facts

and then Sunday

Yeah. Okay. What’s I assume the culture is very different in a big corporate like that. And then it is to like, it’s like a what kind of size brokerages Have you worked in, like, I’ve always been like working remotely or you’ve been in like the Office of those smaller companies.

And that To be honest, the culture difference between Halifax and sometimes there was huge, right? Just that change was like, horrifying to me because Halifax really advanced sort of technological sense. And then sometimes I was like quilting It was really yeah terrible that really, really backwards with everything that the day I don’t know if the better now. But yeah, it was a huge learning curve for me going from essentially sitting in a robot chair and just everything being done for me. Yeah, they will just like will do it all yourself now. And I was like, I don’t really know how to. And so that was a big learning curve. And I’d always been in very big branches and then when I left the banks I went to a tiny brokerage with I think there were about six or seven people there and and it was actually a debt management company right, which was totally different and I was selling life insurance and to debt management clients which was impossible

so sounds

Yeah, it was really it was really difficult we were offering and basically just offering and financial services in general and it did get the company was great but but then I went to

via via bridges and and I was doing expert mortgages for Abu Dhabi, so Doha, Qatar Dubai etc so that was my first as a mortgage application was and here you go his next patch figure it out yeah okay

i five and I think that’s kind of how I got into and complicated mortgage cases because I don’t think I’ve ever done straightforward mortgage

Yeah, no, I think we’re a lot of brokers do. I guess a lot of

the majority of people first port of call, they just think of their bank and then I guess the really simple easy ones go through and then you’ll have a percentage of people that just look around anyway, and then i’m saying is people either been turned down or it’s just like, too complicated or whatever. And that’s where the, you’re a lot of your broker work comes from? Yeah,

pretty much. Yeah, yeah. What recommendations and then which I’ll, I’ll talk about later, but there’s also my sort of niche and that that helps me gain those extra clients that aren’t referred to me. So there’s, there’s my sort of my USP as it is and that helps me get my additional client so yeah,

okay, good. Well, let’s actually dive into that and let’s talk about getting clients. There’s a lot of brokers that I know have an brokerages have lived off referrals and they’re really good because people know who they are. They kind of trust them already.

Have you got any tips for getting more of them

recommendations from clients and

just ask, you

know, I think the biggest lesson I ever had was like, Don’t Don’t be too proud. Yes, they said look, this is free there may need I need more. So if you know anyone who and who needs a mortgage, just please get a shout out. And as of yet, I’ve never had to give a referral bonus to anyone. Right. A lot of people do it. I’m sure it works.

But yeah, not so one. one bit of advice my business mentor gave me about getting referrals was rather than saying Do you know anyone say can you think of one person that you think I could help and then so it’s easier for the brain to like run thing and all who you know all these people think it’s a bit of an easier job or I’ve only got all think of one person and then you finally get more referrals from it.

So that’s one thing that I picked up and it does actually work quite well you’re either get an email a day later say no Can you speak to Joe Bloggs or whatever


okay I’ve noticed and I generally always connect with my clients on and a platform so if it’s like friend who’s been referred by a friend will maybe and connect on Facebook but if it’s just a completely a client then maybe we’ll connect on LinkedIn but whichever channel they’re on I tend to put one very brightly colored and graphic that’s may be bright yellow and it just says this is all it says I do mortgages yeah and I just throw it off every probably every month or two months I just throw it out there as to get on my my personal Instagram or stick it on my Facebook and it just says Addy mortgages and people just go up God just marketers and now all hours get one message off the bat really I thought you did mortgages

it’s crazy

so it doesn’t do anything like creative like because you could put you could write it down on a post it note or something so quite bright aren’t they and take a photo of it or do you is it literally just like a graphic

it’s just a graphic it’s I’ve got like a text app and singing it’s like a almost like a word art but it’s you can just pick your colors and sometimes I’ll do with it and it’s always really bright and like garish so when you pull in your stop and look and but yeah it’s just it’s just something I tend to do just to keep that keeps my friends on their toes because a lot of times I’ll catch them on I will go oh my god I’m always up for renewal next month and I’m like perfect

so okay cool so you’re putting that on your your personal Instagram your personal Facebook your personal LinkedIn literally once a month

when I’m

cool and is it literally the same one or you like doing different time it says I do mortgages sometimes it says I did commercial mortgages sometimes it says Addy life insurance and but most of the time is a simple as I do and then the thing I’m pushing on yeah so I think you you get so like buried in your own work that you like a shim like even your classmates that they remember that you don’t bachelor is really nice prompt and if you getting you getting a decent lead once a month for doing like a two second job obviously the return on that is amazing.

Yeah they say yeah

bro and then because Have you so you’ve never have needed to offer an incentive Do you think you’d get any more if you do I see me doing because you don’t do it

and I’ve never tried it


I’m not I don’t know I’ve never really been one to do things like that I’ve always wanted the value of my way to be the reason why someone to marry me and not just because you can’t get credit

yeah know exactly exactly

maybe it works maybe it doesn’t you know ask me in five years time when I’m ended up six found to everyone

Exactly. Well, we would thinking about a system the we we It was just an idea is one of those ones who put in the idea box and never done anything with it where you can everything’s automated for you just put their email in and it will send them an email and they can get like an Amazon voucher if they refer and when the lead comes through on your website. You’ll notice referred by so and so

an affiliate link

Yeah, basically. But we never got we never got kind of far with it.

But yeah, interesting. Okay, cool. So besides that, you must be living off more than one lead a month. What what else you doing to get those in.

So I as everybody has ever done, I bought leads about lots of leads and cold hard data, which are trolled. I have bought red hot hot keys. And I’ve done it all I’ve literally bought every kind of lead in the universe

and felt great, you know, they all work and buying leads, I would say, buying contact data lead, which is someone gone somewhere and entered saying, Please bring me the best kind of leads. And so the ones are a bit too cold, and the other ones are just very expensive. And because hotkeys can be super expensive, so I kind of settled in this, you know, called Data Entry lead zone. And, and I’m a bit more sort of curious than, than the average bear. And I was like, how are they figuring out how to do these, I want to figure out how they do this. And, and it led me into, and at the time, I was doing life insurance. And I started thinking about how I used to sell life insurance at the bank. And I would always, I’ve always been trained now that if you’re selling something, you’re doing it wrong. And so I would always use a different door to get into the house that I wanted to go into, basically. So and we would offer free will. And with every well we do a life insurance interview and life insurance. So that’s how we would sell to them. You can make that work on Facebook. And because I didn’t really know anything about Google Apps at that point, I went through Facebook and advertised free wills. Basically, that was it and got tons of leads through it was gray. And and that’s kind of how I narrowed that down. And and then I moved into mortgages, and it did not work so well on Facebook

tried. So now started looking at Google ads and AdWords and what I’m really looking at. We had a Google and digital Garrett. I don’t know if you’ve heard of those? Yeah, yeah, we had a digital garbage in Sheffield for ages is probably a year. And I went to probably five or six different courses that Yeah, and that kind of taught you the basics. If I’m honest, it did only teach you the same as what YouTube can teach you bomb paint shop next door. So yeah, it was great for me. And so I went there. And I learned a little bit about Google AdWords. And then I thought I can do this for that’s why

also real back early, when we talk about buying leads will come to the will come to the the garbage stuff. I’ll just do a shameless plug actually spoke Google event, one of the garbage events. And whoever

faces I was funny, actually, because we, we had this event and our business center. And it was like speakers, Google, Barclays, the lead engine,

slightly different leagues there. But yeah, I want to come back to buying leads. And I totally agree. I think the people that have inquired and you’ve got those leads, they’re obviously the best ones, because they want the mortgage, we find in that those people selling you those leads, we’re also selling them to like other people as well. And you have to like dive on the phone first or not.

It depends, there are plenty of people who are selling leads like that in that format. And I think it’s really important to find the right kind of people and and make sure that if you signing any agreements that it does say that it is a single use lead,

and make sure you know, you get in. And again, don’t be afraid to talk to the client when you pick the phone up. Can I just ask, Does anyone else called you

make the inquiries? Anyone else called you? And I’ve make a list of it, and then go back to the people and say, Look, he’s telling me like three times over lead here. So you know, let’s talk let’s talk about this because it’s not that’s not what I’m asking. Yeah,

no, absolutely. I think if the same names keep going up, then it’s pretty obvious that that leaders being caught in the same place you will you will get people that themselves in choir. Yeah.

Okay. Interesting. Cool. Okay. All right, then say sort your so a Facebook was working well for for life, when you are sort of doing the free world What would you like your conversion rate from speaking so as people on wills, to getting them into like a life policy when you did the Facebook stuff.

So it was high, it was very high. And the wealth I would say it was about 25%. So so 25% of the world’s I wrote had life insurance on them, which is not bad going and the actual contact rate from and I would like a will to

picking the phone up and organized know, will appointment was great. He showing up to the appointment, or the person actually doing the well was was that was where you lost a lot of them. Yeah, people like in the moment, they just kind of wanted to do it. He thought maybe they do a form online. And that was kind of where you lost the majority of people, which is fine, because they’re the people you want to lose. Really, really want to do it. And but now it’s pretty good. We had a pretty high conversion rate, so and so wills to life. Yeah.

Do you mind talking cost humans? Can we work out what the the cost per lead was on then if we take a lead or 50 leads a month lead on a gross basis? Yeah. Okay. Cool. And then. So in terms of our can we work out our cost to acquire a new life insurance customer base?

I think it was coming in.

I want to say it was around

it was like 100, 250

pounds. Like when you fully Natalie write down 350 pounds? Yeah.

Hey, size of 1400 pounds. Yeah. Well, it was great. Yeah,

exactly. I don’t think anyone because if you go on Google engineer, look at the cost for like, life insurance quote, and things like that. You’re looking at 2530 credit. Click, hundred quid a lead if you give up line for Maggie. So you’re getting your customer acquisition about what people are getting a lead for that? Yeah. So therefore, yeah, let’s just do a lot more of that kind of sounds

awesome. And then it sounds like then. Yeah, you’re right. A few wills. I mean, some people that that are going through, but if your CPA is that low, and then in terms of your time, I suppose you you will not so considering your time as an individual go out and do it. But it sounds good in terms of

what is all based, so. Right. Okay. really been taking my time national, so.

Oh, fantastic. So sorry. When you said appointments, I thought you meant you were going out to

now just like telephone

and the same. Basically, you are

the one hand off of that for life. Yeah,

definitely. Yeah, it was great. It was, it was great. Life Life Insurance is great. And as a

as a, so products and to help make some money. And, but she is a cruel mistress.

It’s like, I call it the holy grail of, of legions. It’s like, such a because, like, I think he’s, I love the old way you’ve done it, because maybe we’ll just go for life, you know, go straight in with life. And it’s one of those things that like, with a mortgage, you’ve got, like, I want to buy this house. I mean, some people like, oh, something’s falling through. I need this house. I need this mortgage now. Whereas we live. It’s like, I can do it tomorrow. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

different color fish. Yeah.

So you still need that urgency to flip it into something else? because no one’s ever going to be in a rush to buy life insurance. Unless they can’t have it. Know that deeply want it? Yeah,

obviously, I think the, the closest you can get to it is when someone’s just had a kid and then your and then it’s that fine line of like, talking about about death and things like that. We’ve we’ve got a we do a show called talking ads, where we, we talked about the ads in our feed. I’ve seen some really good life insurance websites. I think one’s called dead happy. I think

I saw it last night. Yeah, yeah,

I guess. Um, yeah, absolutely. Love it. We’re, we’re looking at creating our own life brand that is much more than tourists, then, you know, and we’ll talk about No, no, exactly.

Exactly. You do not. Yes. The last thing I want to talk about, I think adding some humor into it. And with anything is is great. So cool. All right, then. So obviously, looking at AdWords then, and Google Ads aren’t. So we’re looking at, basically, people are searching for mortgages, and you’re basically taught yourself and yeah, talk us through what, what you learn and how things have change. When So when did you start doing the Google stuff?

And I think it was two years ago, and I think it was two years ago now, baby, so

it could have been yesterday.

I know when things have actually happened. I’m losing at the minute. But yeah, he’s suddenly five months old. And I don’t really know where that’s gone. must have been about two years. Yeah. So, yes, that was about two years that I’ve had it running for, yeah. And, and that was, I started off with a very, very, very small, but felt she Mungo’s budget. And, and I kind of I remember, I launched it on January 1, and I was like, this is it. This is it. I got the website bill. And it was so painfully simple as well. Yeah, I know, don’t put anything out. Like, what about when I was like, no, nothing, I’ve just want this, this, this and this, and then submit. So it was really, really simple. And, and I remember my first lead that came in, I was like, and yeah,

so it was it was definitely exciting. I remember like, setting it all up and being like, Oh my god, I can’t believe I’m spending money and I might not get anything back from it. And it was terrifying. And, and I kind of really did roll the dice on it. Because this was my only I cancelled all my leads that that I know, or the sources coming in. I was like, Oh, god, this is this has to work. Yeah, it’s very expensive. Yeah.

So So how have you seen prices increase in those sort two years, or

I’ve never had a wavering of my cost per acquisition ever isn’t the same now for 10 years. And it took me six months to get it to that, that sweet spot. And and then it’s it’s never it’s never changed from there.

Okay. So what mortgage products are you going on? He doing like remote or anything? Just commercial mortgage?

Okay. Brilliant. commercial market? Yes. Yeah. Okay. But as a byproduct of that, I get our lives back to last.

Right. Okay. National melted. Yes. Brilliant. So are you then in terms of the keywords obviously, going after? What I don’t know what the volume is on off top my head for commercial mortgages. What what sort of volume? Is it UK wide?

And I don’t know. And because I have genuinely not changed anything for a year and a half? Yeah, I haven’t changed the thing. I’ve left my keywords. I have have multiple meetings with my Google person, the one who knows you and Hound you to change things. Yeah, I changed it. Everything goes horribly wrong. And then I go back and undo, undo, undo, undo. Undo and normal and so perhaps I’m sort of stuck in my way is slightly

know I think there’s something wrong with that. We have just had a client today I’m just while we’re chatting, I’m going to log into my cell phones just to look at numbers

we Yeah, it’s don’t fix it was not working. You always want to, you know, you want to scale because I mean this Meanwhile, love financial services, is it scalable, and you were talking earlier about I just, you know, it’s my phone, my laptop,

which is great for scale. Yeah. So people always want to kind of increase it and things like that. If you’re just getting leads for yourself, then you don’t want to play around with it. And the other lesson is the people that Google employ to do that job that’s normally their first job at Google and their objectives are for you to spend more money and get more traffic weather is your objective is to get more leads and a lot of the time they don’t understand that they think I just want to get more more traffic more traffic but it doesn’t necessarily

and I’m like and I don’t want more people to click it more people to want it and actually commit to something backfilling a form and it’s all about the click through

and page

ok cool so I’m just

pretty high actually on the volumes and because again if you go in for commercial mortgages you would just never be able to

get on that top top page the massive massive massive players that just absolutely smashing smithereens and again I I figured out the words that all the way for someone to to do it, so my keywords are kind of

the everyman keywords, but that was just through, you know, diligent six months, I’m talking every single day, six months, I probably spent two or three hours looking at all my keywords and being like, right, stop that one, move that one increase that one do that everything was so new, meticulously planned, and, and researched. And it was really was like a real sort of mission of mine to get those keywords. Exactly. And I have to sort of forfeit some really good keywords. And because I just couldn’t, I couldn’t play in that, that sort of arena. And to keep my cost per click down. Yeah,

no, absolutely. So how, how advances you’re going to geek out a little bit how advances you like you’re sort of training and knowledge are you like, looking at things like your quality scores and things like that?

And again, now No, but then yes,

if you want I can I can load it up while we’re talking if you want and I can give you

Yeah, well, I’m sort of what I want to get as much value out of us as possible but I don’t want to give you to give away all your secret so see you so I mean, I obviously want to know what what keywords you are all are going after, and how that because commercial mortgages looks like we’ve got five or just in a five and a half thousand searches a month

and this is sem rush tell me I could look into Google sometimes different messing about so just under seven quid a click on on that. But if I go into Google ads,

we can see what Google says

yes. A quite a lot of volume for commercial mortgages and have not really we’re not we do a lot of like ready stuff. We do a lot of business finance. We don’t have a commercial mortgage clients who I haven’t had an inquiry for it

last year, I don’t think so. First, I’m, I’m looking at these other numbers

more volume than I thought it would be. Yeah,

there’s this huge volume for it. And because, and again, most of the time, people are searching for commercial mortgages and they don’t mean commercial mortgages. And so, you know, there’s, there’s certain words that you can use and certain phrases that you can use and that kind of

you can, you can sort of bamboozle people in there as well, you know,

absolutely. You want to speak the language of your customer,

they’re just buying a commercial property or aware, I guess, things like is it like, literally offices, warehouse shops? Is it that sort of? Yeah, yeah,

exactly. That, yeah,

so I guess the, is it more question based people that you’re finding luck with it? Like, how do I get a mortgage for a warehouse? Is it that kind of staff or? Yeah,

my mom, what, what would someone who had a commercial Mojo needed a commercial mortgage and look at when they weren’t looking

right. Brilliant. Okay, so you’re when people are looking for the actual property of sounds you’re getting in front of them? Yeah, yeah,

we can get properties and all the things that people might be searching all while they’re looking for commercial mortgages and things like that. Yeah, yeah, that’s that sort of thing and raises a good search sort of 10 anyway and then you know, you can you can sort of go on the complete other end of the scale and do 100% loan to value and commercial mortgages tone the traffic on that yeah technically you know, people would say well I don’t I can’t do 100% loan to value and bought that’s still a client and you still you still want to talk to that client because you know who doesn’t want 100%

we’ve got similar thing with guaranteed car finance there’s so much volume on it you cannot no one can guarantee cough on it so we want to rank for it organically SEO

you know you want that traffic because that is someone you just need to educate them

yeah I’m

okay i’m not funny any volume on the hundred percent maybe has got the percent mark in there but

hundred it’s just 100

ok cool so

we’ve got you know we’ve got about 5000 people looking at commercial mortgages so we got hundred LTV commercial

once we felt like you said although we’re giving away some secrets here It took us six months is not one of these things you can

yeah ask ask me what those keywords appear on and what the percentages upon phones versus compu as

those words to us because those words the more they work better at certain periods then they do other periods no no absolutely the the way that I advertise and and what I actually do advertise puts me it doesn’t matter if I’m at the bottom of that page they will click me and they will be

like hey right brilliant now you’re talking my language definitely be is we have this kind of misconception with with with clients a lot that the keyword isn’t everything is like less than half the battle so yeah, absolutely your ads I’m I’m really intrigued because we’ve we’ve found a massive shift in like our clients spend from Google over to Facebook. So majority of our mortgage leads are on on Facebook and a lot of our stuff. But I’m my background was originally I was a Google boy for

1012 my world. I mean, I’m doing this for like 15 years. I guess I’m going to Google boy for that fanboy. for that long,

your Google gentleman

with the word one gray hair, I found this one. And yeah,

that’s one thing I think people struggle with. Because when we were talking about quality scores earlier, fill that don’t know you get it’s not like a standard auction that could essentially pay less than your competitors. If you’ve got quality score of 10 out of 10, one of the biggest kind of factors is having your keyword in your headline. But now you’ve got like multiple headlines. Now there’s like three, these are just be one, there’s now three. So you have got room to be creative. So I’m really interested to hear on how you’re being creative, then really confidently said, doesn’t matter where I am, people are going to click on me. So what what what we’re doing

okay, so the thing that really changed it for me, kind of wasn’t really anything to do with being smart on Google. And it was to do with me being smart on where I chose to work. And so I was approached by and a lead buyer who wanted to buy some leads off of me, I sold him some leads and and He then said, Hey, would you like to come and work for me and on my

network as it as it were? And and I said,

Okay, and I was pregnant at the time. And I was like, Oh, I didn’t know I didn’t really want to start brokering and and he was like, No, no, come on, we’ll, we’ll just try it out. We’ll try outcome work your leads on to me, and so I did, and that’s b2b finance. So that’s actually where i, where i broke ground, and now with b2b finance, and, and so their USP which, which changed the game was they charge a broker fee, right?

So no Brooke fees. Brilliant. So and then using that front and center on your ad, you’re fine. Okay, amazing.

Sometimes the best things are the simplest on the


And then I suppose you know, then that that person is like looking at brokers as well. And if even if they’ve spoke to a broker, and even if they’ve clicked on all the three at the top and looked at other brokers, you’ve got a USP there, where the other people are probably saying, oh, we’re charged 500 quid or whatever it is, yeah,

I tend to get the second time round searches. So they’ll go on Google, they’ll search they’ll find number one click, and they’ll click on and they’ll bring them up and they’ll say, Hi, I’ve got this property. And you know, it’s this much money and they go, fantastic. Okay, I broke fees. 1%. And the client goes

1%. That’s so much money. Yeah. And then they’ll be back on Google. And they’ll just do a little search and they’ll just scroll back. Oh, this one has no broker fees. Yeah, click and they’ll go straight through. And so that’s why I tend to find that I get a lot of the 1 million plus inquiries

of 1 million plus inquiries. Yeah, amazing. You’re obviously still getting your kickback from the lender then. So then I assume how it works for you as a broker is still a really good deal because you’re getting much bigger GCI mortgages. Yeah, you’re not charging the fee, but you’re getting decent commissions off that so you’re probably better off anyway. Do you think that’s absolutely

absolutely. And you get you get much more client and inquiries through when you are, there is no reason why that client wouldn’t come to you. Because you are you’re not just the cheapest, you have no broker fee. So people just say, how do you get away with it and say, Well, you know, we we get we get profit off of the lender and we found is that question yeah, the volume we were we find it to be golden moments. And is it is it an angel saying there’s not an age old say, but it’s what my dad always says. I don’t I’m not going to swear. But he swears when he says it and but it’s what’s 100% of people? Yeah, and you know, you can charge you broke up and you’ll get 100% of you you broke up

somewhere else you get 100% of nothing. Yeah so kind of yeah it kind of works for me and James b2b finances a genius I think so yeah we’re not with that idea no broke fees and and you know that’s why we’re now at a stage where we are overwhelmed with inquiries way too many inquiries amazing

there’ll be a lot of brokers that are thinking this incredible

you’re overwhelmed with inquiries you need some good brokers are you guys looking for good I well a stupid question you guys must be looking for good people

we are yet desperately looking for new people and this year we that there’s a rule and you’ll understand this and there’s a there’s a there’s a sweet spot with leads you have to spend this much money to get this conversion and cost yeah and for me to spend that much creates this many leads but we can only service this many leads so there’s there’s all these but just you know I sell I sell some of them and and I’m always happy to sell leads to people and I’m just on a purely transactional basis I don’t do kickbacks we just do transactional lead salad yeah and then there are that are inquiries that just don’t go they don’t get answered

it’s crazy

so many brokers that I speak to the main reason we set up our Facebook group was because there we time we didn’t have anything to offer like the self employed broker working on the road where their network or whoever they’re working for says sorry going you gotta get your own leads yeah we can help us I mean that’s well what’s led to the podcast here so amazing that we’ve got some advice they can buy some leads for you or they can come and join you as well

yeah absolutely and with with the selling of leads as well just because it is purely a means to an end to me and I have no minimum orders I have no contracts and if you’re not committed to buy anything care what bring me on a Thursday and say you want three needs tomorrow send it really it really is just a broker helping another broker out really and as well that because all these companies that sell leads and you know,

we’re we’re we’re very different from them. But being able to do that to someone who is working those leads is a broker understands that let you say I can ring you up I don’t have to I don’t have to buy 100 of them I don’t have to buy 50 of them are 25 or whatever the minimum order is very exclusive

I don’t know how to send them to more than one person

you know I genuinely at once they come in I have a system where they just fly back out of my I have no way of keeping them and sort of yeah billing them elsewhere and and to be honest it’s just pop it’s not a good thing for a client anyway and they are about the fall from the experience so I just want to do it for client I have 50 phone calls when I click one button before we

know it is it is all for me that’s why we that’s why we don’t we don’t do we don’t like sell leads especially some more than the one person because it’s just horrible isn’t it?

Okay brilliant so I love how pull this is this is yet obviously it’s quite complicated as well

have you ever tried this in like anything else in terms of the know broken feet because we’ve got obviously that we’ve got commercial sitting at work in wrestling as well like, you know, multiple images and things like that. I know there are a lot that don’t charge anyway but this

I’ve never tried I’ve actually never tried know broke fees on ready I do have a half portals for lead gen on residential mortgages, life insurance, invoice finance, in development, finance and and bridging yeah so I set up all of those followers I’ve got the website as well up there but I didn’t turn them on yes I don’t have the capacity to deal with any of the inquiries that that would come through and and but now I’ve never tried the notebook fear I’m ready never try that. Yeah,

well we weren’t working with our clients we obviously don’t get the choice of whether they charge a fee or not that’s I’ve just googled remortgage not the greatest killers, it’s got, you know, quite broad, but no one is saying anything about broker fees. They’re saying like Cc Cc Jays, and Paul credit, welcome,

say, thousand sessions say,

let’s try mortgage

application or something like that. Also, another another little tool, I totally feel alone We’re talking about I forgot I installed it the other day. There’s a Chrome plugin called keywords anywhere and you get all the keyword volumes and the costs in the right hand side of your Google. If I share my screen with you. Actually, I can show you

a semi useful Google Chrome extension. Don’t use Chrome.

Do you know you should be using using cry?

Can you see that on the on the right, yeah, so yeah, that’s what it does. Essentially, I’m going to have to go back because we’re getting a warning that it doesn’t like me doing video and everything like that. Right. Okay, so we digress. But let’s have a look. Find the best deal for you. It’s all the kind of standard stuff on Google.

No one’s ever really Robin for the residential mortgages you have. They know

because residential mortgages have cash back maybe people don’t think about actually the impact that know Brophy residential mortgages are worth considerably less than commercial mortgages, because you are talking about neutral like a 1% proxy, especially, I mean, James Booker, from b2b has negotiated way higher fees for all of the products. And anyway, but the, you know, when you’re doing like, a 60 grand mortgage, and it’s got like a point four, five, you know, it’s

bought a while. I mean, I challenge that personally, because I think if you’re doing a residential mortgage, and you’re not doing a full suite of life insurance products, and making another two grand on top of it, you’re not really doing the right thing anyway. So is it worth not getting a proxy of 200 pounds broker fee of 200 pounds or 400, whatever it is, and to make, you know, an extra two grand Yeah, yeah, you’re gonna get everyone that they’re looking for. They may be I mean, obviously, it works because it works for us. Yeah,

no, absolutely brilliant. Okay, you doing anything special, the different when, so we’ve got the address, we see the Nova, I can feel you reinforcing that on your landing page, are you using any like landing page software, or if you just got your website that’s the site or

just a website and it does the first thing you see when you London is we don’t try to break free and then sort of the ethos as to why we don’t try to Berkeley which I’ve kind of just sort of transplanted across. And from, from the b2b ethos, em, and it just sort of x and I actually give them examples. I say, Did you know if you’re, you know, if you borrow in this moment, you’re going to be around this much to the broadcast and chop shop, you know, I’m sure broken hate me.

But hey,

legs. Yeah,

absolutely. I mean, well, if you’ve got a surplus, if you’re hiring more brokers in if you’re selling leads that you’ve already generated, then it’s obviously you’re doing something right is amazing. Okay, brilliant. Have you got any other tips in terms of if they’re, if we decide we don’t want to buy leads of you, if we if we don’t want to join you, I really want to do this myself. We got any other advice on you know, you obviously did some courses and things like that? How much time has that kind of stepped out? Have you got any other ideas, that kind of tips and

I just go on the courses for sort of the and more of their money, what do they try to do this, right.

And it was, however, and I don’t think I learned anything that I couldn’t upload on youtube for free. Yeah, and what it’s really difficult, I think sometimes you need that, you know, take me a little lunch and go in and sit in and being at school. And it did the environment certainly did help. But also trust you got and, and analyze, analyze, analyze, analyze, analyze, every move that’s made on Google is telling you something every single tiny Penny spend, if you can save a penny somewhere else, it all adds up. And that’s how you get down to incredibly low cost per clicks. And incredibly low lead costs. And, and then don’t add the pick the phone up to Google,

I totally agree on all of those points. Absolutely. So 1.1 know it Tom, our he’s our he used to be a marketing manager for a mortgage company. And we used to work together that come out, he he employed me or engineers or contracts that he’s just done a video actually about doing those testing and things he’s done quite, he’s done it on this table, that she’s got the the cards and he’s talking about all the ads and the click through rates and conversion rates, and things like that, to help explain that a bit more. So I’ll drop the link to everyone. So they kind of can get that visual representation representation of what we’re talking about that

and then yeah, there’s also

you’ve got a, you started a LinkedIn group way because you want to help get bit more this, obviously, everyone’s gonna listen to the podcast, but the tone, you’ve got a LinkedIn group where you’re giving out basically advice on the lead gen in terms of like, career wise as well. He tell us a little bit of that. Yeah.

So and it’s, it’s a new group, and it was it was about from demand from overwhelming public demand. People just wanting to know, clients’ actually, who buy off of me. And the way that I advertise this group was, aren’t you just sick of giving me money? Don’t you want to learn how to do this yourself?

I’m for some people, and I’ll be quite honest, I have tried to show them how to do it. And they’ve gone Oh, I got just please just keep taking my money because I really

like okay. But at least now, you know, they appreciate how difficult it is to generate leads. And it really isn’t just a case of just, you know, putting 50 up on on Google and they call and thousands of pounds sometimes to Well, no, not sometimes it’s thousands of pounds to set up a Google account and, and get enough data so that you can statistically look at it and say, This is how much it costs to generate a lead my leads my clients, and it does cost thousands of pounds. But if people want to, you know, pick my brains and that’s that’s kind of what the groups for and so it’s called mortgage careers. UK, you can just search on LinkedIn and find me it is very new, just running through the people who have requested to join it now. And I’m just going to kind of have it as a bit of a forum. If you want to ask questions about mortgages, or if you want to ask questions about leads or even if you get an you know, an inquiry that you just can’t handle because you’re going somewhere and you want someone else in the group to you know, pick it up for you.

I’m hoping it’s gonna be a bit of a bit of a social nice little community community means

love it. I have one last question for you. It’s a bit of a geeky one. Do you do any remarketing so you got any ads running to people that have been on your site and didn’t convert

now have an amazing friend called Chad dollars who will probably hear this super sonically somewhere in the country and I’m not really really targeted. He goes on about it incessantly. He’s like, need to you need to do it. Now. Identity is the honest answer a damn get any more clients

anymore like I seriously can’t handle Yeah, taking any more. I think once we get to a level where we can manage what we have that the minute Yeah, then I’ll refine it. But right now where like

press any buttons. Again,


I’m so used to talking to people that want more leads that it feels we’re talking to someone that doesn’t have the right absolutely love it. Okay, brilliant. So can we get some websites for me? So that so I might going so if I want to buy the lead. So Microsoft connecting with you on LinkedIn and just chatting with you on there? Or do I go by the website? Yeah,

I mean, LinkedIn is probably the best way to talk to me because it’s on my mobile, it’s, it’s completely separate to client emails, which can sometimes get a bit messy. And but you can find me on LinkedIn, Jody Stevenson and ci and pay and there’s myself look and go somewhere and in a black white photo, but that’s me. And so you can message me on there, that’s fine. And or you can you can my mobile numbers on there as well. And my email address is info at Sunnybrook group.co.uk, which is so sugar you November, November, I VA group, okay. Okay. And you can email me there. And, and I’m also having your group on Facebook to you all. Yeah, but I’m under my married name on there. She’s Judy Jamison. So the confusion there by profession, my stage name and my stage name on LinkedIn. Brilliant.

I love it in that though, but

yeah, you know, message message, message message. Anyone? You know, you’ll you’ll end up somewhere near me. Yeah,

brilliant. Absolutely. Fantastic. Brilliant. Thank you so much. I love how simple some of those things where that although it took you six months to get there. When it clicks. It clicks as amazing. And I think a lot of people will be inspired and excited because so many people speak to like, this is their biggest frustration, just getting people on the phone. So I’m great. Thank you so much to be able to come on and talk so honestly about it as well. Really appreciate it. Excellent. All right. Thanks very much. We’re going to say goodbye. So they will have it. I hope you learned a lot and you are kind of excited that someone else is doing this themselves. They don’t need a marketing agency to do it. They don’t need a pay per click expert. They’ve gone out there. They’ve learned everything themselves. They believe it’s all out there for free on YouTube and podcasts like this. So if you enjoyed the interview, you want to see those interviews live. I go live every Friday at 1230. You’ll also get see talking and live on a Wednesday lunchtime as well. That is the financial services lead generation group on Facebook. If not, I will see you next week on the podcast. And I would really appreciate it if you did subscribe if you did rate and review the podcast it will just help me get more viewers and put more time until I can get bigger and better and bolder guests not that God was an amazing but we can also get some big players in the marketing industry as well on if we got the viewership. So thanks very much for listening and I will see you next time.

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